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Old 03-09-2007, 06:56 PM
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grouch grouch is offline
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Ok, these allegations require a response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
It wasn't my intent to 'belittle' my sql - I have never researched it or used it
Yet you did exactly that, with your "robust" comment, even though nothing in my opening comment mentioned any shortcoming of MySQL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
- but you obviously have an bias against MS products
Absolutely true. My bias is not an unreasonable one, rather it is a reasoned and reasonable bias based on the facts regarding Microsoft's behavior over the course of over two decades. Microsoft uses its products as weapons against any business which dares intrude on turf MS has staked out for its own. I tend to harbor bias against criminal activity because such criminal activity imposes costs on me and everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
which I've used for over 11 years and made tons-o-money programming against...maybe you are someone who thinks programmers shouldn't make a living?
Nice non-sequitur and red herring you toss out there. There are more programmers making a living without MS SQL, but that has nothing to do with the journal software nor the problems I described.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
Asking someone for their help or opinion and then telling me that my "None of your assumptions have anything whatsoever to do with the problems described..." is not only wrong based on your description of the problem it's disrespectful and belligerent - I doubt I'll take any time to answer another of your posts...
Let's take a look at your response, in detail, and see what "help or opinion" was given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
I'm a SQLServer/windows/web programmer
This is a good opener that provides background. I've known programmers who can deal with standards, such as SQL, in spite of their day job requiring that they work with MS products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
- don't know MySql at all...
Nothing wrong here, either; maybe a bit surprising given how ubiquitous MySQL is on the Web, but still not a show-stopper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
seems a lot of your problems could have been solved using a transaction space to manage inserts/updates across tables
Here's where things start downhill. My buzzword meter starting dancing like crazy at this point. Transactions have nothing at all to do with misnamed file uploads. Using transactions would not have altered the incorrect behavior of my program in any way. If I were handling online banking, I would certainly base it on transactions, so that rollbacks could take place if there were any interruption in the connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
...also I'd guess you aren't using RI to inforce relationships? - otherwise you should have gotten an error
Assuming "RI" means "referential integrity", a.k.a. foreign keys, no, it is not being used, but using it would not have resulted in the generation of an error. The fact that no error was generated, the photos table was not updated, the image files were being misnamed and being uploaded to the wrong place are, combined, a pretty bright red flag indicating a flaw in the logic of the program. In other words, _my_ screw-up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
...but again I come from SQL Server background and maybe MySql isn't as robust?
This is the kicker. It pegged the needle. Try this hypothetical situation on for size: Let's say I posted a description of installing the distributor in some Dodge engine, 180 degrees wrong. The first response comes from someone who says they've never worked on a Dodge, but it looks like my problems would have been solved if I had plugged the vacuum advance and reprogrammed the ECM. Oh, but maybe Ford systems are just more robust than those Mopars.

Now, to top it all off, MySQL was mentioned once:

Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
(The worst was caused by the differences between MySQL's LAST_INSERT_ID and PostgreSQL's currval('[sequence name]').)
Granted, that's pretty cryptic, but nowhere does it indicate a failing of MySQL. In fact, I wasn't using MySQL at the time of the problems described. I was using PostgreSQL in order to work out how to make the software work the same with both database managers. The results would be the same if I had been using Oracle or anything else: the flawed logic in what I had written would have resulted in misnamed file uploads being stored in the wrong place, no update to the database table I expected to be updated, and no error generated by the dbms.

To sum up:
1. Transactions do not prevent flawed logic.
2. Referential integrity checking does not prevent flawed logic.
3. One can mash a thumb with any brand of hammer.

Back to MS SQLServer, the scariest accounts of SQL injection attacks that I found were associated with that product. It seems that when MSSQLS is compromised by user input such as 1' OR '1'='1', it's not just the database than can be taken over. The server can be instructed to silently redirect so that users continue to think everything is fine, yet their data is going straight to the attacker's server. Just another "feature" that comes from tying "applications" too tightly with the underlying operating system.

The fact that the journal software needs to be multi-platform and freely alterable by sysadmins pretty well excludes MS products. MS is the spoiled brat of computing -- they must have everything to themselves and done their way or they won't play.

Now, after suitable time for you to respond if you so desire, I hope that some moderator will be merciful and send this thread to the dump. It does not include suggestions for inclusion in the new journal software, it does not include any help for making the new journal software more secure and it likely has zero chance of acquiring any information along those lines.
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