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Old 03-23-2004, 01:35 PM
Dave E Shank's Avatar
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Coil Spring Movement

In my 1938 Lafayette, which is BIG fat fenders, there is a upper fender support that runs about four inches over top of front tires from inside firewall to outside of fender edge. I have had a problem of front tire going up and hitting this support which damages edge of fender where it is attached. It is a Mustang II with coil springs. I have put coil supports in between the coils in two places, which reduces coil movement. Recently I put a rubber stop between the upper arm and frame horns, hoping that would limit travel, not muck luck. QUESTION: Would it be better to leave rubber stop in place and take out the supports that limit coil spring movement? I am thinking that by limiting coil windup I might be making problem worse Anyone have coil expirence with a similar problem.....THANKS...DAVE

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Old 03-23-2004, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Mustang II with coil springs. I have put coil supports in between the coils in two places, which reduces coil movement.

Recently I put a rubber stop between the upper arm and frame horns, hoping that would limit travel, not muck luck.
Correct me if I misunderstand you. Shouldn't the stops (bumpers) be on the lower arm to restrict movement? They should be mounted in a such a way as to strike the frame rail to prevent over compression. This would also save the shock absorbers.

This isn't coil-over is it? And are you using stock arms or tubular arms?

If the spacers are the twist-in metal type or the rubber block type, they will over stress the coil spring coils right around where they are mounted.

Any chance of a photo?
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Old 03-23-2004, 03:39 PM
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About the only thing I can think of that would be safe is stiffer springs. Anything else that abruptly limits spring travel can cause safety problems due to instantaneous loss of control. Are your lower A-arms level when the car is at rest? Is your car SUPER low? My son's '36 Pontiac 4-dr sedan was really low and we had all kinds of room in those bubble fenders.
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Old 03-23-2004, 07:52 PM
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-MUST II Suspension Coil Spring Selection-
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:24 PM
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HEY KLUTZ: I did put stop between lower A arm and frame horns. About 1 " high, I did go back in an add another 1/4 " under the orginal stop to give me about 1 1/4 total. I also moved it a little farther back on A arm closed to frame horn. But I have had a chance to get it out on the road yet. They are not coil over design, I am wondering if by putting in spring supports if it keeps the spring from flexing and just pushes it up higher in fender well??

WILLY: Lower A arms appear to quite level when car is on the ground. Problem seems to be when you pull off main road into a drive that is at lower or higher level, where you expirence an abrupt quick change. Down the road and at highway speed car handles fine. I tried to push up the fender supports but they are quite secure and don't give much movement. I put the spring stiffeners in hoping to limit travel but it appears that whole wheel assembly moves anyway. I am just not sure on how much to limit travel before you start breaking welds or something else. It would be great to see it on some kind of a dyno to see where actual movement happens.....THANKS...DAVE

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Old 03-25-2004, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave E Shank

HEY KLUTZ:
...klutz? ...

Quote:
I did put stop between lower A arm and frame horns. About 1 " high, I did go back in an add another 1/4 " under the orginal stop to give me about 1 1/4 total. I also moved it a little farther back on A arm closed to frame horn. But I have had a chance to get it out on the road yet.
It has to have a bump stop and it has to be adjusted so as the suspension will not bottom out. If the spring rate is not too high, you may be able to compress the suspension enough with a floor jack (or actually, remove the spring to determine proper stop adjustment). Just enough as where the lower control arm doesn't hit the rail or the shock is not compressed to it's stop and is damaged. If the suspension is allowed to slam on hard road surface, it will only damge the components.

(You may also at this time have to make a change on the fender bracket. It may just be placed too low.)

Quote:
They are not coil over design, I am wondering if by putting in spring supports if it keeps the spring from flexing and just pushes it up higher in fender well??
Yes. Where the spacers are placed will make the spring coils inflexable at that point(s) and will fatigue the spring. The springs may be too soft. Did you see that EATON SPRING url I posted? It has a quick formula to determine needed spring rate on a MUST II conversion.

And I am not going to call you a name because I still think you are a nice guy...
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Old 03-25-2004, 03:05 PM
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HEY KLUTZ: I did see your spring chart and make a copy for future reference.THANKS. I moved the lower A arm rubber stop back a little further and put a shim under it to limit more of the movement. I will try to get it out this weekend to see the results. I tried bending up the fender supports and it stressed the metal where it connects at fender, so I don't have much room there. I am still not sure what would happen if I took out the spring suspressors? If spring would absorb more upward force being more free to move or windup and reduce overall travel upward? That is really what I am trying to get at: If I limit the lower A arm travel would spring movement be more with supressors in or out? What I really need is less spring travel...THANKS...DAVE
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Old 03-25-2004, 03:10 PM
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Stiffer springs is the proper way to get there.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by willys36@aol.com

Stiffer springs is the proper way to get there.
Yeah...You are going to have to throw the spacers in the trash can where they belong and go to a stiffer spring it sounds like.

While you are putting in the new springs, you can adjust the stop/rebound bumper to correct height also.

You said you tried to bend the fender brackets. If after changing springs you still have contact, you are going to have to fabricate them to have more of an arch...right Willy's?
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:36 AM
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As I mentioned above, all of the bubble fendered cars I am familiar with have brackets way up inside the fender so it isn't a problem. I guess if the bracket here is quite low compared to the fender, he could raise it but that is a lot of work. I would attack spring rate first and do metal work as a last resort.
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