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View Poll Results: Cold air vs Ram air
Cold Air 17 60.71%
Ram Air 11 39.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 09:34 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83SILVRADO
I meant the speed of the car you butt ****er. and the speed of sound comment was reffering to that you have to be going the speed of sound to get any significant power increase. i was bein sarcastic. god i didnt think that i would have to spell this out for you but i swear to god its like talkin to a brick wall. Your like this on every post and it pisses me off.

I'm still not understanding what you're spelling out. and what exactly is a significant power increase? I think at this point everyone agrees that the ram air effect is real, just on the significance of the power increase that it provides.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:23 AM
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IMO, the question is: Is the net gain from R/A (if any) greater than the net loss in drag.

It would seem to me that there's nothing to be gained for a street-driven vehicle- especially not at the speeds seen by such a vehicle.

Any gains usually casually associated with R/A is far more likely to be due to reduced air temperature than increased pressure.

IMO, some of this debate is fueled by emotion- the main proponent to R/A is basing his views on modifications made by family. Even though there's no empirical data to support it, this may cloud his views somewhat.

Last edited by cobalt327; 05-12-2009 at 11:33 AM.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:07 PM
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Well, there's a guy, VMaxGuru, who has done airbox mods to his VMax bike in hopes of some gains with 'ram air' and his findings do not support any significant gains. On that bike with the air 'scoops' where they are I think it would have shown more than +3tq if this was going to work on anything. BTW, bike runs like 9.50's @ 143. Look at the before and after...



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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:42 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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What dyno allows you to run your viehicle at 143 MPH?
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
What dyno allows you to run your viehicle at 143 MPH?
Chassis dyno.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:20 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Chassis dyno.
The car is stationary on a chasis dyno... They even go as far to strap it down to ensure that. If it did hit 143 MPH in there though that would be quite a site to see, from a good safe distance.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
The car is stationary on a chasis dyno... They even go as far to strap it down to ensure that. If it did hit 143 MPH in there though that would be quite a site to see, from a good safe distance.
Check THIS out, just find one that looks interesting.

There are some turbo runs that will boggle your mind!

AFA getting air speed to simulate road speed, in the testing I linked to earlier, they used compressed air, calculated to be identical to a set speed over the road.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:50 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Do you know what speed that was, and how they simulated that on the bike? I'm not trying to decredit your findings, its just that this is finally a step in the right direction to prove it.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Do you know what speed that was, and how they simulated that on the bike? I'm not trying to decredit your findings, its just that this is finally a step in the right direction to prove it.
I would suggest you go to the site that I linked to above and check it out for yourself- the article is fairly long and involves several bikes.

Disregard this reply if the question wasn't directed @ me.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:57 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
IMO, some of this debate is fueled by emotion- the main proponent to R/A is basing his views on modifications made by family. Even though there's no empirical data to support it, this may cloud his views somewhat.

The only emotional attachment I may have to it is that Vizard was the first person who introduced me to the idea though his boks when I was 15. Some of my first car books- how to build horsepower volumes 1 and 2. I credit that man for a large part of my interest and for cultivating my interest as a youth through his writings. Smokey yunick is another man who turned me on to hotrodding.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I would suggest you go to the site that I linked to above and check it out for yourself- the article is fairly long and involves several bikes.
LOL Time to cry Uncle! You'll get him to understand your point.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meschnebly
LOL Time to cry Uncle! You'll get him to understand your point.
Funny thing is, the article actually bolsters HIS views more than the opposition's.

Proof that I have no dog in this scrap- although my views are contrary to ap's AFA there being a "usable" power increase goes.

I'm "cold, still air" all the way, personally!
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:16 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Yea, I just read through that article and it left more questions than answers but as they found:

"Well, what would you rather have - 115 horsepower or 122 horsepower? The CBR-XX obviously reacts well to ram-air induction. The horsepower and torque curves literally mimic the non-ram-air graphs, only with a five to seven horse power increase and three to five additional foot-pounds of torque. It should be noted the Honda XX's ram-air system is one of the most efficient on the market, showing immediate power gains well before the 7000-rpm starting mark and posting high-pressure readings during our top-speed test. For comparative purposes, the CBR-XX's pressure reading without ram-air assist at full-throttle/top rpm was -8mb"


While 7hp doesn't seem much to some people in these bikes it is a very significant amount- about 6%, or about 20-25 hp on a 400hp sbc.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Yea, I just read through that article and it left more questions than answers
This seems to be the theme, when dealing w/ things like R/A- there's much to the how's of the testing procedures as well as interpreting the results.

It does make for interesting reading, none the less.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake

That's a link that describes the basics of Ram air, and shows some factory cars, planes, and motorcycles that use it.

A quote from that wiki: "At... subsonic speeds increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent."

I'm sure there are noticable gains at the speed of sound
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