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View Poll Results: Cold air vs Ram air
Cold Air 17 60.71%
Ram Air 11 39.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:36 PM
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What dyno allows you to run your viehicle at 143 MPH?
The bike runs 9.4x-9.5xs @ 143ish at the track, not on a dyno. Track testing has not shown significant gains as is illustrated in the dyno numbers. That to me means the effort is not worthwhile - no paydirt.

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:20 AM
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About the only way anyone is going to prove anything to AP is take a chassis dyno. Stick the dyno in a wind tunnel.... run the car and while its in the wind tunnel also have strain guages on the straps holding the car back.

This way when he sees 2 HP from ram air. He will see the straps had to hold back less (due to more drag) and that there is about 4 hp worth of extra drag.

Then again what does anyone else know... it wasn't in one of his "books" so it must be wrong.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:32 AM
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http://www.streettostrip.com/index2....do_pdf=1&id=64
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 06:58 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by ChevyThunder
About the only way anyone is going to prove anything to AP is take a chassis dyno. Stick the dyno in a wind tunnel.... run the car and while its in the wind tunnel also have strain guages on the straps holding the car back.

This way when he sees 2 HP from ram air. He will see the straps had to hold back less (due to more drag) and that there is about 4 hp worth of extra drag.

Then again what does anyone else know... it wasn't in one of his "books" so it must be wrong.

That's not a bad start, but you would ned to measure not only drag, but also lift- and you don't need to use strain gauges on straps, measuring drag in a wind tunnel is what the wind tunnel is primarily designed for. Also the air speed would need to match the viehicle speed.

Or you could just run pitot tubes in a car that you put on the road right before the throttle plate to measure any change in pressure. (a lot cheaper method).

And Deez, there was no change on a dyno because ram air does not work on a stationary viehicle. (unless you simulate wind as in the tunnel example)
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 07:50 AM
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This set-up was thought to have worked too. I have never seen anything similar to this anywhere. Perhaps Ram Air will one day go the route of this classic...


FWIW On that article referring to the RamJet and only Mach 2? The ScramJet has been tested to Mach 17.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez
This set-up was thought to have worked too. I have never seen anything similar to this anywhere. Perhaps Ram Air will one day go the route of this classic...
Friend, that is the forefather of the famous long-tube ram induction intake used on the Chrysler 300, etc.

The Ramchargers skunk-works boys came up w/the intake that is shown (I believe the one shown is a recreation of the original) and this definitely DOES work- no doubt about it.

That intake, the Ramchargers and the car that intake is used on are MOPAR icons!!!
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis73
A quote from that wiki: "At... subsonic speeds increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent."

I'm sure there are noticable gains at the speed of sound
thats what im sayin. you wont have any noticable gains at subsonic speeds. and any gain is from the temperature of the air not from the increase in pressure
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:16 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by 83SILVRADO
thats what im sayin. you wont have any noticable gains at subsonic speeds. and any gain is from the temperature of the air not from the increase in pressure

So your justification is a wiki article? wiki si a great place to get ideas of where to start real research but I would hardly say its the final judgement.

Also, as I previously noted the speed of sound has nothing to do with it.

Even with the lack of credentials that wiki has a few % increase is pretty significant.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ap72
So your justification is a wiki article? wiki si a great place to get ideas of where to start real research but I would hardly say its the final judgement.

Also, as I previously noted the speed of sound has nothing to do with it.
Its not the final judgement i was just puttin my opinion in if its ok with you. Yes, your going to gain power from ram air. is it gonna be from the increase in pressure? NO! The "ram air" is a load of ****. It doesnt provide an increase in air pressure like a turbocharger or supercharger does. The only reason there would be an increase in power is because you are getting the benefit of cold air. Do you know why cold air works? because cold air expands more when combustion takes place. which is why superchargers and turbochargers have intercoolers. (Ahah) if modern ram air kits acutally did "ram air" into the engine than i suppose they could work very effectively. Because you would gain an increase from the temperature of the air and an increase in pressure. All im sayin is that these kits they sell are bull ****. They might as well be cold air kits because they arent even providing an increase in pressure.

Last edited by 83SILVRADO; 05-13-2009 at 08:53 AM.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:56 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by 83SILVRADO
Its not the final judgement i was just puttin my opinion in if its ok with you. Yes, your going to gain power from ram air. is it gonna be from the increase in pressure? NO! The "ram air" is a load of ****. It doesnt provide an increase in air pressure like a turbocharger or supercharger does. The only reason there would be an increase in power is because you are getting the benefit of cold air. Do you know why cold air works? because cold air expands more when combustion takes place. which is why superchargers and turbochargers have intercoolers. (Ahah) if modern ram air kits acutally did "ram air" into the engine than i suppose they could work very effectively. Because you would gain an increase from the temperature of the air and an increase in pressure. All im sayin is that these kits they sell are bull ****. They might as well be cold air kits because they arent even providing an increase in pressure.
Ram air does provide an increase in pressure

cold air works better because it is denser, not because it "expands more when combustion takes place."

we are not talking about crappy "kits" but well designed systems.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:01 AM
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god, whatever im done with this. for some reason you think that just because you say something, its automatically fact. You just like to hear yourself talk.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 83SILVRADO
god, whatever im done with this. for some reason you think that just because you say something, its automatically fact. You just like to hear yourself talk.
LOL Pissing up a rope?
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:23 AM
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ok, im gonna go out on a limb and explain this to you ap. yes, cold air is more dense than hot air. which is why it expands more when it is heated. which is good. cold air has slightly more oxygen in it than hot air. hopefully you know that you cant have a successful burn of anything without oxygen. ok so when gasoline and air is sucked into the cylinder the cold air (which is denser and has more oxygen) will create a better and more complete burn of the gasoline. creating more power. im not just making this up. do you understand or am i just pissin in the wind?

Last edited by 83SILVRADO; 05-13-2009 at 09:44 AM.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:56 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83SILVRADO
ok, im gonna go out on a limb and explain this to you ap. yes, cold air is more dense than hot air. which is why it expands more when it is heated. which is good. cold air has slightly more oxygen in it than hot air. hopefully you know that you cant have a successful burn of anything without oxygen. ok so when gasoline and air is sucked into the cylinder the cold air (which is denser and has more oxygen) will create a better and more complete burn of the gasoline. creating more power. im not just making this up. do you understand or am i just pissin in the wind?
I think its more like pissin on your shoe.

The coefficent of expansion does not change for the air in the circumstances you're talking about, meaning it does not "expand more." If the pressure is held constant then the gas expands linearly proportional to the difference in temperature (atleast as far as this case is concerned).

The oxygen % content is the same in the incoming air charge regardless of if it is heated or not.

After 8 years of engineering school you're going to have to try a lot harder and start using complete facts rather than hearsay if you want to make a sound argument with me.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I think its more like pissin on your shoe.

The coefficent of expansion does not change for the air in the circumstances you're talking about, meaning it does not "expand more." If the pressure is held constant then the gas expands linearly proportional to the difference in temperature (atleast as far as this case is concerned).

The oxygen % content is the same in the incoming air charge regardless of if it is heated or not.

After 8 years of engineering school you're going to have to try a lot harder and start using complete facts rather than hearsay if you want to make a sound argument with me.
8 years of Engineering School and you're only 23? Wow, I'm impressed!
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