Cold Air vs Ram Air - Page 8 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

View Poll Results: Cold air vs Ram air
Cold Air 17 60.71%
Ram Air 11 39.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #106 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 08:12 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in the garage
Posts: 240
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What? Not so quick about the cowl being high pressure, that's a pretty general, and assuming statement. I've driven cars down the road at highway speeds with a leaf fluttering around on the cowl, neither blowing away or blowing down, basically looking like a buffeting effect, eddy, vortex or whatever you want to call it. Go ahead and tie some yarn on your cowl and video that for us please while driving. Depending on the flow of air around and over the particular vehicle, there may or may not be an area of high pressure in that zone. COWL INDUCTION IS NOT RAM AIR. I'm wondering with all of that edumacation, have you studied fluid dynamics at all? I'll send you the pitot tubes for your experiment on your car, so be sure to get your video stuff ready for your real time testing to demostrate how this works as you claim. Can you do such a test?


Quote:
there was no change on a dyno because ram air does not work on a stationary viehicle
Um, no duh. In that example, neither track testing nor dyno testing showed improvement.

Quote:
I'm realy trying to boil it down to the basics here in hopes that people will begin to understand it.
Well, know that air is quite heavy, when the piston descends into the cylinder it leaves an area of low pressure and with an open inlet valve, the weight of the air pushes it into the cylinder. No sucking, no ramming, that's as basic as you need get.

    Advertisement

Last edited by Deez; 05-14-2009 at 08:23 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #107 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 08:34 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
Actaully if you send me the tubes and the gauge I'd be happy to run the test. I don't have a video camera but I figure I can borrow one from work. My Cutlass would actauly be a great canidate to run this test on.

For the testing parameter basically I would run the test with the ram air system hooked up as it is now, and then i would disconnect the front section and cap it and run an open tube to the element- basically a cold air setup. I'll need a gauge that is large enough to be readable on camera and sensitive to low pressure changes, a digital gauge would be best, accurate to at least a tenth of a psi. The tube will be inserted inside the duct leading the the air cleaner housing that will remain unchanged for both tests.

This sounds like a very reasonable proposition and I'll cover return shipping of the gauge and tubes when I am done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #108 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 08:38 AM
83SILVRADO's Avatar
GROUND POUNDER
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Carolina
Age: 23
Posts: 177
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
sensitive to low pressure changes, a digital gauge would be best, accurate to at least a tenth of a psi.
Yup, accurate to the tenth of a psi cuz thats all yur gonna get...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #109 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 08:58 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
Each tenth will be worth a little less than 3hp, so each tenth measured is pretty significant .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #110 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 09:16 AM
83SILVRADO's Avatar
GROUND POUNDER
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Carolina
Age: 23
Posts: 177
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
im sorry... i cant do this anymore. every thread that you post on turns into this... everyone against you and you still not understanding. im pretty much done with this post... its just pissin me off anyway. i do not want this poll to be deleted. not until its way dead. this post has a ton of information on it. so i say we keep it as long as we can

Last edited by 83SILVRADO; 05-14-2009 at 09:35 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #111 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 09:58 AM
72fordlb's Avatar
BARN BURNING BIG BLOCK!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: concord NC
Posts: 176
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
everyone chill out yes ap72 might make it hard and u 83 but come on this is a info website not dr phil.com. chill out i have a design which has ram air and a regular intake at the same time. so cold air or ram air my design will smoke both so shutup.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #112 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 10:50 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 60
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
I'll let the evidence do the talking.

Last edited by cobalt327; 05-14-2009 at 12:03 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #113 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 11:21 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
Actually engineers are NOTORIOUS for bad writing, but yea I had a minor in technical writing. Some professors would be throughly upset with my grammer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #114 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 11:25 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in the garage
Posts: 240
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bling bling

OK. How's this agreeable conclusion -
Ram Air may work in some instances for some applications but not all instances in every application.

I know there are drag races using Ram Air boxes of their own design that may offer increases in ET and MPH, but that is not to say theirs is not just a crutch fix for some other issue that is actually lacking. OTOH, working within the system you already have (like A/F delivery, chamber/burn/thermal efficiency, camshaft/CR/valve events, tuned exhaust etc) you may find more gains than the Ram Air total possible for your engines actual use. In more simple terms, this option is not right for the application

bling bling

The OP's question
Quote:
which would be better on a 98 camaro z28 ls1?
IMHO, would be the cold air option


AP, check here for some Differential Pressure Gauges
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #115 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 11:31 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
I'm not buying the gauge, I already have a good vacuum one and they are expensive as **** for a good one.

As far as track vs street- the engine knows no difference so the argument that it will work on the track but not on the way to the track is really BS. I'm glad you're seeing it work on the track though- it means you're on your way to enlightenment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #116 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 11:47 AM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Can you folks debate the technology, without picking on each other's education level? Let the evidence speak for itself. There are some experienced guys with the right education who put up real facts..listen to them.
This is a good thread, and I'm not locking it, but I will do some housecleaning of the non technical posts if it keeps up..

Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #117 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:12 PM
Custom10's Avatar
my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

Last journal entry: SS
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 50
Posts: 1,101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 32 Times in 27 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
a blower does rely on speed, the speed of its rotation which is driven by pulley diameters, gear reduction (in some cases), and crankshaft speed. It operates just the same as any other gear pump.

Ram air does rely on speed to provide the pressure differential, and a large enough opening to provide adequate flow. It has nothing to do with the speed of sound though. It is however dependent on the square of the velocity, meaning you will see dramatic increases as your speed increases (twice the speed is 4 times the pressure).
Wow quite a thread, seems as if Einstein himself would feel a particular need to join in. IMO the key word used here is "differential". As far as I can tell this is the only place in the thread that it shows up. Flow is only present when there is a differential or using the elec term "potential difference" same SH#@
different pile. No matter what form of induction adder/helper/booster is used be it super chrg, turbo, cowl induc, ram air, If the system creates a greater differential pressure between the top of the piston and the air/fuel mixture trying to get in then the NET result will be a greater amount of mixture to burn in the cylinder than without. Lets not get all caught up in the other factors such a drag, tire pressure, prevailing winds or the moon and its tidal forces. Fact is IF ram air creates a greater differential pressure than no ram air then you are going to have more flow. Of cource the effects of cold air are more disernable and if I had my choice I would go with the cold air every time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #118 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PA
Age: 71
Posts: 367
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83SILVRADO
oh really? 8 years of engineering school at 23? huh. youve been in engineering school since you were 15? i find that extrememly hard to believe. you dont know how to admit that your wrong. your just full of yourself. so keep talking and maybe someday you will say something intelligent. i know its a stretch. ***************.

chevy thunder- i agree with you 100%
ap72 had a list of all of his academic achievements and work experience in his profile until, I called him on a lot of the BS. At least now, he does not say "I am an engineer..."

Ap why don't you post your education and work experience again, in your profile?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #119 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:25 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 60
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10
Lets not get all caught up in the other factors such a drag
You can not just remove drag from the equation- that's not what's being discussed, IMO.

Again- the question should be (again, IMO): Does the net gain of R/A overcome the net loss from drag.

It is whether there's an overall gain by using R/A in the real world. Or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #120 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:28 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 372 Times in 351 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glen242
ap72 had a list of all of his academic achievements and work experience in his profile until, I called him on a lot of the BS. At least now, he does not say "I am an engineer..."

Ap why don't you post your education and work experience again, in your profile?

I didn't think I took it out, but I will post it, and I actaully am an engineer, I will be sitting for my PE early in '10.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Martin Senour Tech Sheets? unstable Body - Exterior 42 03-12-2011 10:09 PM
1969 GTO Ram Air IV Croz Engine 5 09-20-2006 07:37 PM
respirators and supplied air robs ss Body - Exterior 12 08-30-2006 08:44 PM
anbody run this cold air system spinn Engine 6 05-08-2005 09:49 PM
Ram Air Intake - 67 Mustang hot rod jerry Engine 4 06-26-2003 05:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.