[Deez]

What? Not so quick about the cowl being high pressure, that's a pretty general, and assuming statement. I've driven cars down the road at highway speeds with a leaf fluttering around on the cowl, neither blowing away or blowing down, basically looking like a buffeting effect, eddy, vortex or whatever you want to call it. Go ahead and tie some yarn on your cowl and video that for us please while driving. Depending on the flow of air around and over the particular vehicle, there may or may not be an area of high pressure in that zone. COWL INDUCTION IS NOT RAM AIR. I'm wondering with all of that edumacation, have you studied fluid dynamics at all? I'll send you the pitot tubes for your experiment on your car, so be sure to get your video stuff ready for your real time testing to demostrate how this works as you claim. Can you do such a test?

there was no change on a dyno because ram air does not work on a stationary viehicle

Um, no duh. In that example, neither track testing nor dyno testing showed improvement.

I'm realy trying to boil it down to the basics here in hopes that people will begin to understand it.

Well, know that air is quite heavy, when the piston descends into the cylinder it leaves an area of low pressure and with an open inlet valve, the weight of the air pushes it into the cylinder. No sucking, no ramming, that's as basic as you need get.

[ap72]

Actaully if you send me the tubes and the gauge I'd be happy to run the test. I don't have a video camera but I figure I can borrow one from work. My Cutlass would actauly be a great canidate to run this test on.

For the testing parameter basically I would run the test with the ram air system hooked up as it is now, and then i would disconnect the front section and cap it and run an open tube to the element- basically a cold air setup. I'll need a gauge that is large enough to be readable on camera and sensitive to low pressure changes, a digital gauge would be best, accurate to at least a tenth of a psi. The tube will be inserted inside the duct leading the the air cleaner housing that will remain unchanged for both tests.

This sounds like a very reasonable proposition and I'll cover return shipping of the gauge and tubes when I am done.

[83SILVRADO]

Originally Posted by ap72

sensitive to low pressure changes, a digital gauge would be best, accurate to at least a tenth of a psi.

Yup, accurate to the tenth of a psi cuz thats all yur gonna get...

[ap72]

Each tenth will be worth a little less than 3hp, so each tenth measured is pretty significant .

[83SILVRADO]

im sorry... i cant do this anymore. every thread that you post on turns into this... everyone against you and you still not understanding. im pretty much done with this post... its just pissin me off anyway. i do not want this poll to be deleted. not until its way dead. this post has a ton of information on it. so i say we keep it as long as we can

[72fordlb]

everyone chill out yes ap72 might make it hard and u 83 but come on this is a info website not dr phil.com. chill out i have a design which has ram air and a regular intake at the same time. so cold air or ram air my design will smoke both so shutup.

[cobalt327]

I'll let the evidence do the talking.

[ap72]

Actually engineers are NOTORIOUS for bad writing, but yea I had a minor in technical writing. Some professors would be throughly upset with my grammer.

[Deez]

OK. How's this agreeable conclusion -
Ram Air may work in some instances for some applications but not all instances in every application.

I know there are drag races using Ram Air boxes of their own design that may offer increases in ET and MPH, but that is not to say theirs is not just a crutch fix for some other issue that is actually lacking. OTOH, working within the system you already have (like A/F delivery, chamber/burn/thermal efficiency, camshaft/CR/valve events, tuned exhaust etc) you may find more gains than the Ram Air total possible for your engines actual use. In more simple terms, this option is not right for the application

bling bling

The OP's question

which would be better on a 98 camaro z28 ls1?

IMHO, would be the cold air option


AP, check here for some Differential Pressure Gauges

[ap72]

I'm not buying the gauge, I already have a good vacuum one and they are expensive as **** for a good one.

As far as track vs street- the engine knows no difference so the argument that it will work on the track but not on the way to the track is really BS. I'm glad you're seeing it work on the track though- it means you're on your way to enlightenment.

[powerrodsmike]

Can you folks debate the technology, without picking on each other's education level? Let the evidence speak for itself. There are some experienced guys with the right education who put up real facts..listen to them.
This is a good thread, and I'm not locking it, but I will do some housecleaning of the non technical posts if it keeps up..

Later, mikey

[Custom10]

Originally Posted by ap72

a blower does rely on speed, the speed of its rotation which is driven by pulley diameters, gear reduction (in some cases), and crankshaft speed. It operates just the same as any other gear pump.

Ram air does rely on speed to provide the pressure differential, and a large enough opening to provide adequate flow. It has nothing to do with the speed of sound though. It is however dependent on the square of the velocity, meaning you will see dramatic increases as your speed increases (twice the speed is 4 times the pressure).

Wow quite a thread, seems as if Einstein himself would feel a particular need to join in. IMO the key word used here is "differential". As far as I can tell this is the only place in the thread that it shows up. Flow is only present when there is a differential or using the elec term "potential difference" same SH#@
different pile. No matter what form of induction adder/helper/booster is used be it super chrg, turbo, cowl induc, ram air, If the system creates a greater differential pressure between the top of the piston and the air/fuel mixture trying to get in then the NET result will be a greater amount of mixture to burn in the cylinder than without. Lets not get all caught up in the other factors such a drag, tire pressure, prevailing winds or the moon and its tidal forces. Fact is IF ram air creates a greater differential pressure than no ram air then you are going to have more flow. Of cource the effects of cold air are more disernable and if I had my choice I would go with the cold air every time.

[glen242]

Originally Posted by 83SILVRADO

oh really? 8 years of engineering school at 23? huh. youve been in engineering school since you were 15? i find that extrememly hard to believe. you dont know how to admit that your wrong. your just full of yourself. so keep talking and maybe someday you will say something intelligent. i know its a stretch. ***************.

chevy thunder- i agree with you 100%

ap72 had a list of all of his academic achievements and work experience in his profile until, I called him on a lot of the BS. At least now, he does not say "I am an engineer..."

Ap why don't you post your education and work experience again, in your profile?

[cobalt327]

Originally Posted by Custom10

Lets not get all caught up in the other factors such a drag

You can not just remove drag from the equation- that's not what's being discussed, IMO.

Again- the question should be (again, IMO): Does the net gain of R/A overcome the net loss from drag.

It is whether there's an overall gain by using R/A in the real world. Or not.

[ap72]

Originally Posted by glen242

ap72 had a list of all of his academic achievements and work experience in his profile until, I called him on a lot of the BS. At least now, he does not say "I am an engineer..."

Ap why don't you post your education and work experience again, in your profile?

I didn't think I took it out, but I will post it, and I actaully am an engineer, I will be sitting for my PE early in '10.