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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 04:40 PM
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No luck today..got my bodywork all done but confused on if I can use another brands activator or not.I did shoot a
Abother test panel I keep getting these imperfections that look like dust or dirt specs but there not&when I wet sand it makes it really dull.Any ideas?&I'm running
a big torpedo heater but cutting off before I shoot.

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Old 11-25-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthroatkid View Post
No luck today..got my bodywork all done but confused on if I can use another brands activator or not.I did shoot a
Abother test panel I keep getting these imperfections that look like dust or dirt specs but there not&when I wet sand it makes it really dull.Any ideas?&I'm running
a big torpedo heater but cutting off before I shoot.

Impossible to say without good pics.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfart952 View Post
hey bud, u shooting a car with no heat now ? i shot a nova at 27 outside. it came out mint. i used centari ae fast dry 793 and fast dry reducer 3812 and 8034 both ae reducer. ya gotta be careful runs u know. i also used lac primer and 3661 thiner.good luck take your time. gary
Gives hope to cold weather painters everywhere.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:49 PM
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Tryd taking pics but it dosnt seem to show up in pics
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:04 PM
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If they are tiny bubbles, it could be water/contamination in the air supply or solvent pop. You should be using FAST activators/reducers in these less than ideal conditions.

Experts please correct if that is bad info...
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cutthroatkid View Post
No luck today..got my bodywork all done but confused on if I can use another brands activator or not.I did shoot a
Abother test panel I keep getting these imperfections that look like dust or dirt specs but there not&when I wet sand it makes it really dull.Any ideas?&I'm running
a big torpedo heater but cutting off before I shoot.
On the activator question, the answer is NO...It's not a good idea, even if the mix ratio is the same as your activator, you don't know what else is in another manufacturer's product...People have done it and gotten away with it, I've seen people do it and the paint job becomes a big mess...NO.

As far as your "dust or dirt specs" issue, it's hard to tell you what it is without seeing it. It could be dirt or dust, your conditions aren't optimal for a dust free paint job. It wouldn't be solvent popping, to cool for that. I'm not sure I understand when you say you wet sand it and it makes it really dull??? It should make it really dull, you need to polish it after it's wet sanded.

Ray
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:44 PM
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I do quite a bit of the cold weather painting and you really should use the fastest reducer you can get for that paint. The one "good" thing I can say about painting in the cold is there are NO bugs. I don't care how well I seal everything off, there are always bugs landing somewhere on the work. Not so bad for the sealer or base, but your really in trouble when they start landing in the clear. So for that reason I try not to spray in the warmer months. And like I said before you really need to push the flash times longer in the cold than you would normally. Especially with a S/S paint, that will take longer to flash than a base coat would even in the cold weather. I don't know how long that particular brand calls for flash times, but I myself go double if not triple on those times, according to just how cold it may be.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:31 PM
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Excellent info there. Thanks mr.4speed. I ordered paint for a project Im working on tonight, and will be spraying in a few weeks... I was on the fence about using medium or fast reducers/activators... decided on the fast even though I am in a garage that is somewhat heated.

Thanks for your insight/ experience with this

Andy
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:44 PM
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Andy, what is the temperature when your painting?
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:56 PM
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It will not be above 70 degrees thats for sure... They are calling for low 50s this week as the high...and its going to get colder... I have a reddy heater, but that gets shut off when the paint starts flying.

I had good luck this weekend with my epoxy primer
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:58 PM
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OK, are you using fast in your base and your clear? And what is the cost of a gallon of reducer for the clear your using?
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
On the activator question, the answer is NO...It's not a good idea, even if the mix ratio is the same as your activator, you don't know what else is in another manufacturer's product...People have done it and gotten away with it, I've seen people do it and the paint job becomes a big mess...NO.

As far as your "dust or dirt specs" issue, it's hard to tell you what it is without seeing it. It could be dirt or dust, your conditions aren't optimal for a dust free paint job. It wouldn't be solvent popping, to cool for that. I'm not sure I understand when you say you wet sand it and it makes it really dull??? It should make it really dull, you need to polish it after it's wet sanded.

Ray
It's not dirt or dust...I have the area Im painting in framed up with a make shift paint booth with tyvek all around even on the floor with a huge dust collector sucking...I do the standing in another section of the shop.It does look dull but matter how much I sand it down it still shows the imperfections.I can't really explain it..its not orange peel it look like small splatters over the whole paint.Its not there when I shoot it happens as it clears.I had this problem this summer also&Idk what I did different but it went away...could it br from over reducing?Because I know for sure this summer I over reduced forsure
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:45 AM
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Ok...so this is what is going on pic #1 is the current issue which its hard to tell from a few feet away you can't even tell but its there.

#2 same pane just with no flash on the camera
#3 this though also gray a totally different type of paint.I know this was all botched up...it was my first time trying it ,was supposed to be a ss metallic that I put on way too fast over reduced&didn't wait long enough between coats.The reason I'm posting this is the marks kind of look like this but a lot more settle not as much like orange peel can't really find the words that Im looking for so Ill just say a lot less noticeable.It looks like a cross between solvent pop&fisheyes. What I have going on now that is
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:18 AM
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It's not dirt or dust...I have the area Im painting in framed up with a make shift paint booth with tyvek all around even on the floor with a huge dust collector sucking...I do the standing in another section of the shop.It does look dull but matter how much I sand it down it still shows the imperfections.I can't really explain it..its not orange peel it look like small splatters over the whole paint.Its not there when I shoot it happens as it clears.I had this problem this summer also&Idk what I did different but it went away...could it br from over reducing?Because I know for sure this summer I over reduced forsure
OK...lets try to analyze the problems...you say it's not orange peel, and it looks like "small splatters over the whole paint"...so I take it that these imperfections are deep kind of "small crater's" or miniature looking volcano's and no matter how much you sand you can still see them and it's not dirt or dust. I'm probably over 1,000 miles away, but, when I hear what your saying, and I'm trying real hard to listen to every word because I want to help...the key here is that no matter how much you sand, you can still see them...This sounds like "fish eyes. Fish eyes are caused by contamination...Things like silicone, oil, even perfume can cause this reaction in paint, you may not see it in your color coat because it closes or flashes faster than a clear coat, clear coat or any catalyzed top coat is designed to stay open longer to achieve optimum flow and gloss. If your using single stage and now that I think back I do believe you are, same rule as clear coat, it takes time for the contamination to take effect. If you don't see it when your spraying it would appear as though the contamination is air born (contamination floating in the air as your spraying). ..The question is how do we solve it? I'll start by asking a few questions. Please take the time to answer these questions because how you answer will allow me to figure out where and what the contamination is coming from.

1)Do you or has anyone in contact with the vehicle ever use a product like Armorall on the outside or the interior of the vehicle?
2)Is there any loose products in your booth like WD 40, oil, turtle wax, that type of thing?
3) What do you use to wipe the vehicle down with before painting, what type of rags, wax and grease remover, or a mineral spirit designed for wiping it down?
4) It's cold outside, when you bring the vehicle into the booth, how long do you wait before painting, is the metal on the body at spraying temperature?
5) Is there anything outside the booth that resembles products in question 2 and 3. You mentioned you where in a shop...what do they do in this shop?
6) When you say"it happens as it clears" do you mean that it happens when the over spray gets sucked out of your booth?
7) What do you use to clean your gun with?
8) When you suck out the over spray your removing air from you painting area, what part of the shop is the fresh air coming into the booth coming from...(Oil change bay, detail bay, car wash bay...what do they do beside your booth)?

I know these questions sound stupid and simple, but usually the solution is just as bizare. I should ask more questions and will as I get answers to these. Bare with me and we should be able to come to a workable solution

This is a start, please answer these questions and I'll try real hard to get to the bottom of this situation for you...If it is fish eyes and the more information you give me, the more it sounds like fish eyes are one of the biggest PITA's in the painting world..but let's beat this thing. Depending on how you answer these questions, I will have more questions. I'm sorry my man...one of the joys of painting, don't think it's just you, every painter worth his salt has gone though it and I'll try and help.

I'll wait for your response.

Ray
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:46 AM
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Hey there I was In the process off posting this but Ill paste it&add to it&it should give some more insite......
also before I forget..I had a brand new fiberglass hood I painted with the same gun same temp conditions etc the thing came fresh out the box&I just shot it as a test no prep work came out flawless with a nice gloss&could see my reflection..then I had a fender that I sanded to bare metal&that although of course you could still see the sand marks..didn't have the paint flaws The test hood I used I did only use 1 coat of primer&1 coat of paint.The single coat of paint leads me to believe it isn't solvent pop.I'm leaning towards a combination of bad prep work,not the correct activator&or over reducing.I'm pretty sure the over reducing is a big part of it because When I had this issue in the past I just kept adding more reducer trying to get it wetter.Also I'm thinking maybe to much..I'm not going fast@all it seems when I go fast I get my worst results its hard to explain my speed Id say I'm going pretty slow overtime I speed up I get major orange peel.I know its all trial&error but these little spots are killing me!
Ok let me try to answer a few questions.Now I've gotten this effect with guns fresh out the box or old guns I clean with nason reducer.Its happened on all different panels.When I had the issue in the summer it was in the 90s.So with the same issue while cold I'm thinking temp is playing a big roll.All the panels had been sitting in the shop for months&I had heated the shop for a few hours.When I say shop I mean my home shop.Its a detached 24x36 metal building sheeted with sob&insulated with foam board.I work on my project cars&bikes down here that's all nothing exposed that shouldn't be.The building is well ventilated it has a pitched roof almost like a lean to starts@7 ft & runs to 12 I'm working I'm the 7-10 ft section&above my head is the foam board which has 1x2s securing it to the peeling that are on the other side of the foam& below the metal.This issue has happened when painting inside or out.I even used a booth for a day @ a friend of a friends&had same issue.There not really like craters as there's no hole in the middle of em. It &this is gonna sound stupid looks like if you fell asleep on the carpet&it left indentations on your skin.
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