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Old 06-15-2004, 10:45 PM
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Color Sand on Small Metalic

The paint i have picked out has a very small metalic flake to mixed in the actual base. Can this be color sanded and buffed? If so what grit and what type of buffing compound should be used? If it will help I have the actual PPG formula sheet, from internatal color library or somthing like that. It is PPG Omni line. Dark Dark blue off of a 01 Saab almost looks black.

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Old 06-16-2004, 01:52 AM
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It can't be cut and buffed unless it has a clear coat. If it is a base coat color, you have to wait until the clear is applied before sanding.

If it is a single stage metallic, no, you can't cut and buff.
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Old 06-16-2004, 08:21 AM
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So how do I fix it when and i stress when not IF i screw it up? Is it possible to fix base blemishes?
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Old 06-16-2004, 09:02 AM
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Single stage or clear coat?

Troy

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Old 06-16-2004, 10:13 AM
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bc.cc PPG Omni
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Old 06-16-2004, 11:22 AM
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I always screw something up on my paint jobs. Fortunately they are usually tiny ones that don't show very badly. If anyone finds them I just tell them that I subscribe to the American Indian philosophy; they always built in a flaw in things they made, i.e., one green bead in a red bead necklace, to show humility since only God is perfect. Those are my humility marks!
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Old 06-16-2004, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 70chevy
So how do I fix it when and i stress when not IF i screw it up? Is it possible to fix base blemishes?
I'm the master at screw ups in base!
Let the base dry 30-60 minutes and wet sand the problem with 600-1000 grit wet but like they were all saying being a metallic you must re coat the base with more base before you clear.
spotting in base is real easy. You won't have a problem!
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:12 PM
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good thanks barry I was so worried having a metalic flake meant you get one shot per panel or it is back to square one. I was going to have them re-do my paint formula for me....

WIlly I am glad to hear that is true, my grandmother used to tell me that when i would mess stuff up. I just thought she was being sweet. I think I can plea that before during and after my paint. I can call it the indian truck. Well for a first time build I think I am going to be more than pleased with it!!

Thanks one and ALL back to work now....
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Old 06-16-2004, 09:11 PM
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Read the tech sheets, I don't know about OMNI but many base coats have specific "rules" in the tech sheet NOT to sand them, AT ALL other than very minor "nibbing" of dust.
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Old 06-17-2004, 08:10 AM
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Well i dont have the tech sheets due to i have not bought the paing yet as it will probally be christmas before i paint, what happens in the case that my sheet says do not sand, how do i fix base coat problems. Or clear for that matter?
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Old 06-17-2004, 08:27 AM
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It more than likely WILL say "DO NOT SAND" but if you keep reading it will also say if you must be sure to recoat it with base. IT being whatever you sanded/scuffed.

Im using DuPont's Chromaline and it says exactly that and just from following this and other boards Im quite certain the PPG line recommends the same for their AU bc/cc line.
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Old 06-17-2004, 08:43 AM
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I know this sounds nuts, but you don't have problems with your base

No, really, you will have something here and there (SOMETIMES) that you have to repair. The point is you are not suppose to sand on it, period (some bases). If you know that, you will sand ONLY the bare mininum you need to.

Honestly, most people worry WAY too much about that base. Some dust here and here, some dry spots here and there, that sort of thing is going to mean nothing once you get the clear on. Those little dust specks will be transparent being it is soaked with clear. Sure there will be a little high spot in the clear,THAT is where you cut and buff the clear to perfection. The base WILL have weird light and dark areas, it has no gloss so it will have some areas that just look strange without clear on it. Once the clear is there you will not see them.

Now, some of those flaws, you WILL see, I am not saying you have nothing to worry about the clear will actually magnify somethings. The point I want to make is that it usually works out just fine, you spray the base, you don't have to get a gloss with the base so you don't have to apply it so wet. You have all the time in the world (as long as you follow the recoat window times in the tech sheets, usually MANY hours if not days) to apply the base, so you can carefully do it. You don't need to make full passes keeping dry spots to a mininum like a SS, you can dust here and there where you see spots that need a little more color, that sort of thing.

Base is VERY easy to apply. I HIGHLY recommend you get a junk fender or two from your neighborhood body shops trash and spray them BEFORE you ever touch your car. Get a good feel for it.

Quote:
Originally posted by sportbikeluvr
It more than likely WILL say "DO NOT SAND" but if you keep reading it will also say if you must be sure to recoat it with base. IT being whatever you sanded/scuffed.

Im using DuPont's Chromaline and it says exactly that and just from following this and other boards Im quite certain the PPG line recommends the same for their AU bc/cc line.
The Chromapremier tech sheets specifically says "Sanding should NOT be required. Nib sanding of small areas to remove dirt must be followed by an application of more color before clear coating". "Nib sanding" is NOT "sanding" off orange peel or anything like that, that is what I was refering to. And other brands are even more persistant. S-W tech sheet states "Do Not scuff or sand (wet or dry) the basecaot color before applying clear. Small areas may be wet sanded to remove dirt".

Sanding the base will cause adhesion problems with the clear to base.


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Old 06-17-2004, 09:01 AM
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Well how likely is it that i will get orange peel? I am not worried about fish eyes, as i am stripping to bare metal, degreasing, priming sanding, degreasing sealing. How long will sealant last before needing to be sanded and reshot. I am planning on driving it in primer state for about 3-6 months and let anything that wants to crack or brake do so. that way i can repair it before i have a couple hundred in paint already layed down.

I have a rear and front wheel well (inner fender skirt), I know these arent optimal, but i get to shoot curves, curves with sharp lines in it, and flat areas with blunt curves, I figured this would give me a good test run.

So if I do wetsand and area do i reshoot just the affected area, or the entire panel?

Thanks everyone I am positive all this information will help save my sanity come paint time!!

Oh yeah are there any special hints, tips, or tricks that would not have been in my painting book that i should be following for priming?

Thanks again
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Old 06-17-2004, 11:07 AM
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???????????????????????????????
I have never seen a base that can't be wet sanded???

It would not last a week in a normal body shop.

I'm sure you mean if sanded you need one more coat over that spot. or don't normally need sanded.
In a custom shop it would not last a day, I just left a shop that a 32 ford the bill will be almost $90,000 and no way they could have buried the trash with clear and get away with it.

I do know there is no chemical reason why you can sand as long as dry enough not to roll. Most bases are pretty similar as to how they are made except comparing the cheap ones to the premium ones,
As competitive the paint market is there is no way a color company could survive if this were true.

Last edited by BarryK; 06-17-2004 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 06-17-2004, 04:53 PM
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I have always sanded base, if it needed it.Nebs, nats, etc.
I would not recommend it for a novice, as you have to know what to watch for and the look and feel of the surface being sanded.
Different colors and different sizes of metallic and pearls will sand different. And then sometimes you will have to dust with color to bring it back to match, which is a simple to do with BC?CC.

Troy

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