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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2007, 10:25 PM
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Common myths exposed - sorry Chevy guys

There is a very common myth out there that Chevys are cheaper to build than anything else. Well, that may be so for the all too common small block but when it comes to big blocks, Chevys don't cost any less than some of the better choices out there.

Here is a comparison of the cost of major engine components for the Chevy 454 and the Chrysler 440. GM high performance parts or Mopar Performance parts were quoted when possible to ensure that the comparison was apples to apples. Most of the Chevrolet prices are out of the Summit Racing catalog while most of the Mopar prices are from one of the major Mopar parts suppliers, Mancini Racing. Minor parts such as bearings etc were left out since the cost is comparable as well as machine work which is also comparable. Aluminum heads were priced completely assembled and the stroker kits completely balanced.

Basic 454 - 496 Stroker

COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Cam and Lifters =CCA-K11-208-3 $359
Isky Valve Springs $129
Oil Pump = GM Performance NAL-3969870 $93
Eagle Street and Strip Rotating Assemblies 496 cu. in stroker $1589
GM Performance Parts Aluminum Cylinder Heads = NAL-12363390 $969
GM Performance Oval Port Dual Plane Intake Manifold = NAL-12363407 $270
Edelbrock Performer 750 CFM Carburetor = EDL-1411 $300

Total cost = $3709


Basic 440 - 500 Stroker

Mopar Performance Hyd. cam = MOPP4529318 $180
Mopar Performance Valve Springs = MOPP3690933 $128
Crane hyd. lifters = CRN99278-16 $93
High performance oil pump = Melling M-63HV $54.95
440 Source 500 cu. in stroker kit = #4 440.500.5093 $1697
Mopar Performance Aluminum cylinder heads = MOPP5153524 $768
Mopar Performance dual plane intake manifold = MOPP5153525 $219
Edelbrock Performer 750 CFM Carburetor = EDL-1411 $300

Total cost = $3459


Now I'm sure this ticked some Chevy guys off but.... This comparison basically blows two myths. One: that Mopars are expensive and two: that Chevys are cheaper than anything else to build. So the next time some yoyo says that Chevys are way cheaper to build than anything else you'll know at least one thing, either the guy is grossly misinformed or he's just plain dumb.

Could you build the Chevy cheaper, sure if you compromise on the quality of parts or buy sale items. The same holds true for the Mopar. The idea here was to compare the cost of two similar engines using similar quality parts. OK...given the parts listed, which will produce more HP? Who knows.... but personally my money is on the only one that could give the 426 hemi a run for its money back in the 60's... the 440.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2007, 10:59 PM
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WOW.......... I'm going to have to own somethin with a 440 at some point in my life (1970 Challenger 440rt(cammed and not sure what all else) 4 speed) being stuck to the seat in that thing made my mind up
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:24 PM
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Oh you're really trying to stir it up here, aren't you Centerline? At one time, I believe the myth was generally true. But that was a long time ago. But Mopar's aggressive marketing and competitive prices for their high performance parts over the last 25 or so years, the popular and inexpensive Mustangs over the last couple of decades are just a couple of examples of factors that have tended to level the playing field. I've actually heard Chevy guys complaining as to how disgustingly cheap some things for the 5.0 Ford are. That's a 180 from when I was a young gearhead. In those days I fooled around with a lot of FE Ford engines and big block Mopars and grumbled about how easy the Chevy guys had it!
Now, you don't want to compare that BBC to building a hemi, do ya'?
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:29 PM
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Centerline, Shhhhhh. You'll convince them all to switch. I'd rather race a Chevy than a Mopar, any day!
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:49 PM
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you for got to mention the stroker kits from 440 source are the same price for every size available for the 440 which are 500,512,528and 543.

try getting a stroker kit to build a 543 from a 454 for $1697.

I can attest to the quality of the kit because i have bought one and am putting it together.

this is my approx cost to build a 528 from a 440

stroker kit 528 $1697

light weight rod op. extra $50

computer balanced $200

ede preformer rpm heads $1350 (valves & springs installed)

ex oil system single pick up $250

comp cams cam & lifters $250

roller rockers & shafts $300

head bolts $96

billet hold downs hughs eng. $89

rocker studs $76

pro copper head gasket .080 $149 used to drop comp for street use.

headers $249

total so far for engine only $4756

the only big purchase left will be the 1050 carb but for now im using a 850 i already have.

all parts not listed i already own and a few dollars saved due to the fact the engine i started this project with had a little over 5000miles on it since it was built & it need only a hone to clean the bores up & put a cross hatch in them.

Not trying to down play or criticize any brand merely posting a example of a mopar motor built on a small budget.

Bill
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:49 AM
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One can also compare the cost of say some AFR heads or the cost of a cam and kit from one of the majors..or most any other aftermarket part and find that new in the box prices for comparable parts are about the same for each brand of engine..

Sam
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:32 PM
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I agree with someone who said marketing and the hobby itself has leveled the playin field. Technology also plays a role but I bet if you really build something trick with roller cam and kit, roller rockers, blower you could still throw a rat together cheaper than a blue oval or walter.

Me I went the really expensive route and built a stroked out, bored, blown 392 Hemi. I can't even stand to think about how much money I've spent. However I also have a pretty wild 409 to and it cost about the same amount.

If your having fun who cares.
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1930u

Me I went the really expensive route ...

If your having fun who cares.
being a poor college kid.

Centerline- thanks for bringing this to attention... maybe I'll stop seeing sbcs under the hood of everything, including non-GM vehicles.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:39 PM
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Funny, nobody has ever told me that BBCs were cheap. Small-blocks, sure, but not big-blocks.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:23 PM
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Hi,
I'm with Arcuden, The only time I found less expensive
BBC, stuff was when I had a friend who worked the
parts counter @ Pensky & Gerard Chevy in Phila.

Also the part about Mopars, there high price came
with the "Direct Connection", look at the prices then,
Did you look at Indy heads prices, at the time the only
real good after market mopar heads, & then it just carried
on, Today, however no mater what BB your building
the BB means, Big Bucks.
rich
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:33 PM
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But I would rather not switch ...

I believe that the brand of vehicle you drive/like/mess with has a lot to do with what your first performance car was. Mine, like so many others ... was a 55 Chevrolet. Easy to install a V8 ( mine was originally a 6 cylinder/straight drive with OD, 2 door 150 series post car ). Graduated to Big Block Chevelles, Novas and a few Camaros. Still easy to install V8's or even Big Block V8's. Most everything interchanged easy ( except the old 348/409 engines ) .

When I finally got where I could buy a 32 Ford ... the Chevrolet engine still was the choice ... for me. Small, compact, and plentiful.

Without a doubt ... they fit better, are easier to find parts for ... and are used by more folks ... for engine swaps.

Big Block Chevrolets ... ruled the streets ... in my area back in the late 60's and early 70's. Ford had the FE 427's ... but almost nobody had one ... and if they did ... it was not a street car ... same for the Hemi's. Sox and Martin had super quick drag cars ... but on the street ... Hemis sucked. The 440 six pack cars hauled ^$$ ... but I only ever saw a handful of them ... and the LS6 454 Chevelles and BBC Novas and Camaros could generally out run them ... on the street. The standard 440's and 383's could not keep up with MOST of the good soild lifter/4 speed BBC Chevelles. The same for the Z28's ... you cannot run with a BBC with 302 inches ... no matter what the reputation is now ...

NOW ... the 5.0 Mustangs pretty much dominate the street action around here. At out local speed shop, most everything in stock and on the shelf is for 5.0 Mustangs. ( most are 347 strokers around here ).

Some of us older guys ... could do something about them ... but @ 60 years old ... I am not going street racing ( jail time, possible loss of the roadster ect ) and my roadster cannot get on the track ( no rollbar ) because of safety rules ... so the younger guys rule the streets.

When I get my 3W coupe finished ... I may try a few of the street 5.0 Mustangs ... at the quarter mile drag strip ... ( with a roof on my 3W ... no rollbar required until 11.90 )

@ 2700 pounds and with 430 Horsepower ... I believe I can outrun most of the " Street " Mustangs If not ... I do have a adjustable NOS nitrous spray ... setup which should get me close to 600 horsepower.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2007, 06:20 PM
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IMO, it's not so much a matter of them being less costly so much as a matter of availability, accessability, and convenience; small block Chevy parts are easily (barring the "year and model syndrome") available almost any place you go; not so with other marques, to a large extent.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrumbler
IMO, it's not so much a matter of them being less costly so much as a matter of availability, accessability, and convenience; small block Chevy parts are easily (barring the "year and model syndrome") available almost any place you go; not so with other marques, to a large extent.
That is a fallacy. It might be true for some of the more exotic engines, like the early hemi but if you break down and need a part for a big or small block Ford, or B/RB or small block Mopar you can pick it up at any Napa dealer and just about any of the "name" stores as well. They may not have all the internal components in stock but if you need them you're a little more than broken down on the side of the road anyway.

The SBC guys always like to say that "parts availability" is why it's such a great engine. That's just not the case.
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE-Centerline... Chevys don't cost any less than some of the better choices out there.

Heres my problem with all this, who said there were "Better" choices out there? Once a Chevy guy, always a Chevy guy I guess But I would like to see dyno results on these kits.

bonuts
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonuts
QUOTE-Centerline... Chevys don't cost any less than some of the better choices out there.

Heres my problem with all this, who said there were "Better" choices out there?

bonuts
Sure, there's better... here's a 65 Impala (land yacht) eating a Lambo. Click Here
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