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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2013, 02:07 PM
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2013, 02:22 PM
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Xe274

That's what I am running. 383 stroker with 3.73 gears into a pick up. Cam has a grip of torque but I stuffed a Hughes 3000 stall into the turbo400. It is crazy power from start to 4800 rpm. I have never wanted to go any faster. Cam states power above that rpm but I don't need to go faster than 100 in my 30 plus year old truck. Running 15" rims 275 60 r15 8" wide. It rips thru first and hooks pretty well at second. My choice is the 274.
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:32 PM
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Zinc ZDDP has never been added to any gasoline ever. it is not a anti wear additive or anti valve seat recession
agent in gasoline.

GM used the same stock valve springs in all their production SBCs (even the high perf motors) from the early 60's to when they went to a LT gen II
motor. Even these motors have very similar spring pressure.

Mousefink you have no clue what you are posting. Where do you get this crap?

GM had a bad run of cam cores in the late 70's 80's . Mostly 305 cams. Had nothing to do with the oil.

Lead is a additive in gasoline for octane. Has no effect on cam lobe wear. Unless you dump the gas in the oil.

What are you smoking there guy?

Most of the more recent flat tappet cam troubles are from IMproper install,, cheap crap lifters and cheap crap cam cores.
You buy a cheap cam and or cheap lifters you get a cheap cam made by the lowest bidding production shop on the cheapest cam core money can buy.
Isky flat tappet Cams and Isky lifters are not cheap. Thats why they are not sold cheap.
Ya get what ya pay for.

ZDDP is not lead and is not added to gasoline Leaded or unleaded. It is not a gasoline additive.

The new supercharged LS corvette motors do not use excessive valve spring pressure either.
it is actually very tame. The key is correct cam profile, light weight valvetrain and hyd roller lifters and Beehive/ovate low mass anti resonant springs.


ZDDP is a very effective oil antiwear additive and modern oil still has quite a bit of ZDDP in it.
But wether a little bottle of ZDDP concentrate dumped in will actually improve off the shelf oil is another story.

Moly is the main additive you want for initial cam lifter breakin protection anyway not Zinc.
More Zinc added to oil is not nessessairily better.
MolySlip E oil suplement has both Zinc and Moly additive in it. It goes in your oil, not in the gas.
The key to this is it actually mixes with the oil.
further:
Many good oils are available made just for flat tappet cams. Does more than just help the cam too.

Apparently the Oil Extreme is very effective too.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 07-27-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:56 PM
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You are correct F-Bird, in addition, lead was used as a high pressure, high temperature lubricant which in addition to the points FBird already established, helped to prevent valve seat recession, or the "sinking" of the valve seat into the head. As the Gov. mandated the reduction of lead in on-highway fuels, the OE's had to start using induction hardened exhaust valve seats or valve seat inserts to combat the issue. CHevrolet was noticing valve seat recession to such an extent that the valve seats actually failed after only 24 hours(approx.) of dyno run time.

I have 70,000 miles on the 283 Powerpack that uses the stock flat tappet camshaft. I'm always worried about it since the ZDDP content was lowered in order to help to keep the catalysts from fouling.
I have heard good things about Moly type lubricants.
This same engine required the exhaust seats to be machined out and hardened inserts were installed for use with unleaded fuels.

peace
Hog
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:21 PM
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The removal of lead from gasoline in 1971 was only part of the story of the the 70's era smog motor short valve
job life .. The other half of the story was the high exhaust temperature from the retarded ignition timing
and the twinned exhaust EGR ports in the smog heads like the 882. and 462624 head

The exhaust port and valves were forced to run a lot hotter on those motors in an attempt to burn off unburned hydrocarbons and make the old style pellet Cat converter function.
The exhaust valves and seats ran hot too. Hot exhaust valves and valve seats from retarded timng sinks the exhaust valves
These cars were notorious for starting grass fires and warping the exhaust manifolds from excessive exhaust heat. (retarded ignition timing) 60's era SBC exhaust manifold warping is almost unheard of.

now you know the rest of the story.

You do not need to pound a oil with Moly additive either . I use half the dose of the Molyslip E in my oil,
So 1 can lasts for 2 oil changes.
for my car . Excessive additive is not better. I still like the GM EOS too. It is now relabled as GM Engine break in additive instead of Engine Oil Supplement.

It is not a fix for cheap cam cores, cheap lifters or improper manufacturing method. Or improper install.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 07-27-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2013, 06:35 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Roller cams cost more and deliver more power and much better (reduced) wear. There's no arguing that point. Consider that all the oems switched to rollers on these engine types a long time ago, there's probably a good reason to consider it for your ride too.

I understand having a thin wallet. I also understand that it royally sucks when you have to rebuild a brand new engine when a cam goes flat.

I also understand that a basic 5.3l with a little work is cheaper and will run faster with better mileage... Sbc's are the new flat head ford. Done be surprised to beat by a lot of stock newer cars, not just a ZL1.

Hot sbc's still sound cool but they get beat quite often on the streets now.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2013, 10:24 AM
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I would use the old school 280H. Much less likely to go flat than the xtreme cam.

A 280H should pull hard to 6500 and will work well with your CR, gear, trans, and car weight.

I had good results with the 292H. Pulls hard to 7,000 rpm. 3.90 gear, T5 5 speed, 26" tall tire, 10.5 cr 350, 200cc iron eagle darts. Trapped at 120 mph in a 3000 pound car which takes around 400hp at the tires to do that.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The removal of lead from gasoline in 1971 was only part of the story of the the 70's era smog motor short valve
job life .. The other half of the story was the high exhaust temperature from the retarded ignition timing
and the twinned exhaust EGR ports in the smog heads like the 882. and 462624 head

The exhaust port and valves were forced to run a lot hotter on those motors in an attempt to burn off unburned hydrocarbons and make the old style pellet Cat converter function.
The exhaust valves and seats ran hot too. Hot exhaust valves and valve seats from retarded timng sinks the exhaust valves
These cars were notorious for starting grass fires and warping the exhaust manifolds from excessive exhaust heat. (retarded ignition timing) 60's era SBC exhaust manifold warping is almost unheard of.

now you know the rest of the story.

You do not need to pound a oil with Moly additive either . I use half the dose of the Molyslip E in my oil,
So 1 can lasts for 2 oil changes.
for my car . Excessive additive is not better. I still like the GM EOS too. It is now relabled as GM Engine break in additive instead of Engine Oil Supplement.

It is not a fix for cheap cam cores, cheap lifters or improper manufacturing method. Or improper install.
Thanks for the "Rest of the story", I cant remember the name of the radio announcer that said that line.

Would GM EOS or its new relabel be sufficient for use in my 283. I run Shell conventional 10x30. World some EOS protect the flat tappets/cam in my 283?
Or should I run a diesel oil such as Shell Rotella?

The only drawback to roller cams is cost, and perhaps their weight if you are spinning the engine at high rpm. They help with power and fuel economy. They do require a very hard core though. I have seen some bad stock Vortec 454 roller cams.

thanks
peace
Hog
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 09:35 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
Thanks for the "Rest of the story"
Paul Harvey, and now his son, Paul Harvey Jr.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 02:50 PM
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The SHell Rotella has had the Zinc ZDDP content rolled back now too. The 15w-40 Rotella is still dame good oil thou.
Find a oil that is designed for the old flat tappet cams.
Anything you now see at Walmart or CTC common off the shelf street motor oils is not going to cut it.

you now need something that is labled "not street Legal" or "racing oil" or
Amsoil Muscle car oil,, Brad Penn etc etc. There are many oils intended for "flat tappet cammed" engines, now, to choose from.

I am using the MolySlip E additive on my oil. (1/2 dose)
it is readily available, here.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 07-29-2013 at 02:55 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 03:11 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The SHell Rotella has had the Zinc ZDDP content rolled back now too. The 15w-40 Rotella is still dame good oil thou.
Find a oil that is designed for the old flat tappet cams.
Anything you now see at Walmart or CTC common off the shelf street motor oils is not going to cut it.

you now need something that is labled "not street Legal" or "racing oil" or
Amsoil Muscle car oil,, Brad Penn etc etc. There are many oils intended for "flat tappet cammed" engines, now, to choose from.

I am using the MolySlip E additive on my oil. (1/2 dose)
it is readily available, here.
a lot of racing or NSL oils have low detergents- so they're really not helping you out any. Kinda makes you wish you spent the extra $100 upfront and got a block with roller provisions- would have saved you a hell of a lot of headache.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 07:26 PM
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a lot of racing or NSL oils have low detergents- so they're really not helping you out any. Kinda makes you wish you spent the extra $100 upfront and got a block with roller provisions- would have saved you a hell of a lot of headache.
yea the low detergent content sucks, hello oil changes at 1500-2000 miles

whatever, all of these dinosaurs we ride in only get driven once or twice a week
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:56 PM
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Thanks for all the input and thanks too for the lesson on motor oil. I have decided to go with the xe274h cam. The numbers look good on it, I guess we'll see when I get it all together. If it sucks, its only a cam and they change out pretty easy. Thanks again for the advice.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The SHell Rotella has had the Zinc ZDDP content rolled back now too. The 15w-40 Rotella is still dame good oil thou.
Find a oil that is designed for the old flat tappet cams.
Anything you now see at Walmart or CTC common off the shelf street motor oils is not going to cut it.

you now need something that is labled "not street Legal" or "racing oil" or
Amsoil Muscle car oil,, Brad Penn etc etc. There are many oils intended for "flat tappet cammed" engines, now, to choose from.

I am using the MolySlip E additive on my oil. (1/2 dose)
it is readily available, here.
Disappointing about the Rotella 15W40 diesel Rotella.

Thanks F-Bird.

peace
Hog
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:31 PM
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Fire60, as it sounds like you are leaning to the flat tappet Comp Cam, before you go and order it I suggest you read this link to Comp Cams and see what extra it would cost for you to add this built in measure of safety to possibly prevent a cam shaft failure.

Pro Plasma™ Nitriding Process

Its a crappy deal that the oil companies are reducing the ZDDP as it sure won't do the older engines on the road or farm tractors for that matter any good. Anyway others who commented on the cam choice, throw out your thoughts on nitriding ....
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