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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2010, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Funny you should mention this just as I am getting dressed to go out and install my rear drum brakes on my Rambler. I remember my brother had a shoe "recurve" cutter of some sort to match shoes to drums. I also remember seeing guys give the shoe a firm whack with a large hammer to take a little of the curve out of them so they fit the drum better.

Brian
When most cars had drums you could buy them in incremental over sizes. You always bought shoes to fit the drums or some shops had the machine you mentioned to re-curve them.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2010, 06:48 AM
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The Kelsey Hayes 8 lug had huge performance benefits compared to iron drums.. I never could get mine to fade, even after repeated panic stops..

The reason I went to discs was the pulling under panic stops.. I never knew which lane I was going to end up in during a panic stop.. Knowing what I know, now my front end might of needed a little more toe-in..

Now my brothers 66 Bonneville has 8 lugs and it stops on the dime straight as an arrow. The only difference with the 66 is Pontiac went with a triangular upper control arm. My 64 has the ball joint at the rear portion of the upper control arm.. The 66 also has slightly bigger brake shoes...

I wish I would of given these brakes more attention. Maybe anchor pin adjustment..
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2010, 07:08 AM
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disc vs drums

Fords 48 and earlier had the brake shoes pinned at the bottom. Brake force was graphed closer to pedal force. .
Lincolns of that era used self energizing brakes.,the old upgrade was to use Lincoln or F1 pickup self energizing brakes on your early Ford. Lincoln or F1 pickup brake shoes were linked together. and the brake shoes floated and when you applied the pedal the shoes rotated in the drum and the first shoe applied more force to the drums and to the second shoe. stopping power vs pedal pressure was a curve. Disc brakes graph closer to a straight line vs pedal pressure. Disc- drum require more work to match and get good feel with out one end lock up vs 4 wheel discs.
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:09 AM
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A large part of any brake's performance is the ability to shed heat. A drum brake- if it'll cool sufficiently- will perform on a par w/a disc system, given adaquate size for the application.

The problems w/ drum brake fading began in earnest when vehicle performance went up, along w/the front end weight bias of V8's in mid-sized cars, when the "muscle cars" came to be.

Besides the Pontiac 8-lug wheels and hubs were the late 50's-early '60's Buick finned aluminum drums, long a favorite of rod builders:

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Old 10-11-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Pontiac "8 Lugs" were a brake drum wheel set up that was one of the coolest wheels EVER!





I LOVE those! Very cool!

When it comes to performance, there is a lot more to good braking then the ability to lock up a wheel.

When I first got the Pantera, the brakes had a dual CNC master Cyl with balance bar. Problem was no one balanced the braking. It was damn scary! As you come to a stop sign, the fronts would lock up before the backs would do much. It would slowly skid to a stop. I just knew I was going to rear end some one.

So I started adjusting the balance bar. Obviously you don't want the rears to lock up first (or else the rears will pass the front). BUT I adjusted till I found the threshold. Then I adjusted them just pass the threshold slightly front bias but close to neutral.

After I adjusted the brakes the car would stop so hard it would throw you against the belts; hard! It was tough and uncomfortable to make it skid.

Everyone knows the front brakes do more braking then the rears but...In optimum braking the rear brakes pull the fronts down making the front more effective. It's a cumulative effect. With out the rear brakes pulling the fronts are far less effective.

The point is there are several factors which effect braking from suspension to balance. With a drum set up a good balance is not only hard to attain but the balance varies from day to day, temps, brake adjustment, etc. A drum system is seldom optimum. A disc system changes very little day to day by comparison.

If the backs work too good you stand a chance of going backwards during braking. If they don't adjust as they wear then your fronts will become less effective as well greatly effecting your braking.
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:58 PM
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Would be nice to have dual mc w/ balance bar; more efficient and likely more accurate than proportioning valve.

And how about those "self adjusting" drum brakes.
Word was...they adjusted when you stopped in reverse.
Never seemed to work on my cars; maybe I should read the instructions.

I noticed my reproduction ratchets are not catching on my rear drums adjusting wheel. Maybe I need to bend ratchet bracket so it purchases on the ratchet thumb wheel?
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:03 PM
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I always wonder how much balance changes click to click.
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:04 PM
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Mustang, I never had any luck with those self adjusters myself..

I just got finished adjusting my rear brakes today.. No big deal in my book.. It gives me a chance to clean away the brake dust..

On thing I've learned is improperly adjusted rear brakes will cause a car to pull to one side..
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitts64
Mustang, I never had any luck with those self adjusters myself..

I just got finished adjusting my rear brakes today.. No big deal in my book.. It gives me a chance to clean away the brake dust..

On thing I've learned is improperly adjusted rear brakes will cause a car to pull to one side..
Excellent point. I never thought about rear brakes causing car to pull to one side.
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 001mustang
I know there is absolutely no merit for comparing drum vs. disc performance data.

My car has both drum and disc...I am easily amused ...I thought any data would be neat.
If you Google "Kevlar brake linings" there are a couple of companies that have them available for Muscle era cars these will stop you a lot faster and the Kevlar reduces fade by 20-25% this nitche in the market was created since a restored Muscle car needs to retain it's original looks thruout.They should have these for your Mustang,most local clutch and brake rebuilders could reline your shoes with Kevlar,another big advantage is you won't wear out your drums like a semi-metallic lining will saves $$ in the long run.
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