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Old 11-15-2005, 06:37 AM
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Compatability? SPI/Ospho

Barry,
Have you heard of Ospho/Skyco? Its a product that is used extensively in the marine industry to treat rusted metal and stop bare metal from rusting. I undeerstand Randy Ferguson uses your epoxy over it, but I want the straight scoop.

Heres my reason:
As a hobbyist, I can only commit so much time to each area. To e-prime each area as I complete it, is not really in the cards for me. I would much rather clean it, and Ospho it, protecting it until I can do the priming all at one time. Takes too long to clean up the area, protect my lift with drop clothes from overspray, clean the car, mix paint, spray, clean gun , etc.

Seems to me, that I represent a fairly large portion of the hobbyist guys. If your products are 100% compatable, then I think it would be a FANTASTIC marketing approach for you. Sure, Ospho would benefit, but a little creativity on your part may get you in on that deal too!

Wouldn't it be super, to be able to just work a section of fender, wipe it clean, Ospho it, then finally paint it when you get a large enough area to justify it?

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Old 11-17-2005, 02:49 PM
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Barry? Any experience?
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Old 11-17-2005, 04:14 PM
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Yes it works fine, if instructions are followed.

The ideal situation of course is to apply the epoxy but 2K primer would also work over a smaller area.

Funny, the timing of this question as I was reading the instructions off a bottle of this stuff today in a jobber store and it says let let overnight before painting over it.

I have never recommend the stuff because items like this get abused and than that leads to problems. As the bottle states for minor pitting etc.
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Old 11-18-2005, 05:44 AM
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I was at Dutch Comstocks all last week chopping the top on the '39 Chevy, and he was recommending it. Said Randy raved over it. With the "Big 3" in agreement, its GOTTA be good!

It's nice to be able to clean up an area, wipe the Ospho over it, and know that its somewhat protected. AND won't screw up the paint. I'll defeinately Epoxy it.

Do you have any jobbers in Upstate NY yet? Let me know, and if need be, I will see if I can get you names/adresses so we can get your product in more hands.


Side note:
That shrinking wheel is absolutely amazing. I sincerely doubt that the c pillars will take over 1/2 tsp of filler combined.
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Old 11-18-2005, 06:22 AM
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Ospho is simply an acid solution that only acts to convert any rust that is present
The Ph goes neutral where there is no rust to act on (wait over night to prime) in roughly 24 hours (often much longer!)
It has no future rust prevention capability and can cause paint adhesion problems because it leaves converted scale on the surface

No thank you, from experience, the worst to use on a surface to be finished later
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Old 11-18-2005, 08:44 AM
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Red65,

Back about 15 years ago most of the paint companies started shying away from any kind of acid treatment.

In a manufacturing facility under very controlled conditions there is nothing better than an acid treatment.
Body shops are not "very controlled conditions" so acids in the past have created more problems then they solved.

It scares me to death the mention of acid treatment but if done like the labels says its good but the first time a painter plays bench chemist and says I'm not diluting or rinsing with water if the can calls for that, your in trouble.

I cannot begin to count the number of jobs I have seen failed over the years because of acid treatment use.
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Old 11-18-2005, 10:24 AM
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Is it a problem of the acid not drying completely?

Its been on a week. Over bare metal. Just like the instructions on the bottle said.
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Old 11-18-2005, 10:31 AM
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Barry-
I think I know how to make you more $!

Come up with a thin product that you can spray over bare metal. Even if it were epoxy paint that you mix equal portions into a spray bottle (like an old windex bottle) Or be able to wipe on the metal with a rag (preferable), to protect it until you had time to spray it the right way.

ANYTHING that was quick easy and cheap to do. I HATE cleaning my spray guns. Takes me 1/2 hour JUST to clean it.



(ok, just give me a deal on the product, and I will waive my patent rights! )
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Old 11-18-2005, 10:44 AM
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Cleanign guns

A trick for tha tis to get one of the carb cleaning buckets and put thinner in it.actually the carb cleaner works well too..take the gun apart when done and drop it in there..keep a parts washing brush handy...cleans up quick..makes life a bit easier..if your gun is all metal you can just leave it in the bucket with the lid on...

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Old 11-18-2005, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bewailing
Barry-
I think I know how to make you more $!

Come up with a thin product that you can spray over bare metal. Even if it were epoxy paint that you mix equal portions into a spray bottle (like an old wind ex bottle) Or be able to wipe on the metal with a rag (preferable), to protect it until you had time to spray it the right way.

ANYTHING that was quick easy and cheap to do. I HATE cleaning my spray guns. Takes me 1/2 hour JUST to clean it.



(OK, just give me a deal on the product, and I will waive my patent rights! )
**********************************************

Well, two options.

Yes you could spray it out of a sprayer bottle as long as the plastic was made to stand up to solvents. Wind ex bottle comes to mind.
Companies like Body Magic and Mal co sell these type of sprayers pretty cheap.

OR:
A lot of Mercedes, Toyota,and Porsche body shops because they are required to put any filler over epoxy use cheap small rollers from home depot and they work real good as far as laying the epoxy smooth.
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenaway2long
Is it a problem of the acid not drying completely?

Its been on a week. Over bare metal. Just like the instructions on the bottle said.
Actually, the Ospho instructions say to rinse thouroughly after applying, then wipe the part dry. I gathered that this was the "neutralization" step. Of course, hand drying doesn't ncessarily mean you'll be able to "completely" dry it, but if flushed accordingly, there should not be any acidity left. BTW, try leaving a small bolt in a cup of Ospho for a week and se what happens.

Russ
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:00 PM
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acually no!! your supposed to leave the opsho to dry then it produces that powder that you brush off then you paint directly over it. here is a link to the website.

http://www.ospho.com/directions.htm

when i spoke to barry recently about acid washes and epoxy this was one thing i forgot to ask him. i was curious because its the only one i have seen that you leave on. all the others you need to rinse with water. the water is what kills the whole process and the rusting starts all over again. kind of senseless to me. i think i am going to have to do a couple tests. if i can leave the stuff on and the epoxy will adhere to the ospho film then this might be good. i would still prefer bare metal but certain things this would work great for.
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Old 11-20-2005, 07:40 AM
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Duplicolor/Marhyde rattle can self etching primer (acid and lacquer?), for "temp" rust prevent and so you can handle the piece. I sand the surface 400-600 smooth and apply, 80 grit sand it just before applying the epoxy

Duplicolor Rust convertor rattle can (acid and heavy acrylic?) for temp rust prevention, (if you can't remove all the rust), atleast the converted scale in the pits left behind is bonded (?) "some" by the acrylic, 80 grit sand before applying epoxy

So would you rather "sand" or clean your gun?

The righty way is epoxy immediately, agree with Barry, "any" etching can cause contamination

Last edited by red65mustang; 11-20-2005 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 11-20-2005, 10:45 AM
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I am with Barry here, it is too easy to screw up the acid treatment. I have seen too many failures do to improper treatment to count.

Barry, have you ever seen the product "Picklex"? It is similar but I believe acid free. I have some out in the garage, only tried it once but it seemed to do a heck of a job. I just sprayed it on and let it set. No rusting at all for months. Then I sanded it off and primed. It appears to do a great job of protecting the bare metal prior to prime time.

But again, it is easy to see how it could be used incorrectly. On another site there was a guy who was doing a "test" to see if applying plastic filler over bare metal was better than over epoxy. In this "test" the epoxy failed miserably, it popped right off the metal! Well of course, he applied Picklex and then the epoxy, and probably didn't clean it well. He was living by the results of this "test" never questioning the "test" it's self!

Brian
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Old 11-20-2005, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcleanr6
acually no!! your supposed to leave the opsho to dry then it produces that powder that you brush off then you paint directly over it. here is a link to the website.

http://www.ospho.com/directions.htm

when i spoke to barry recently about acid washes and epoxy this was one thing i forgot to ask him. i was curious because its the only one i have seen that you leave on. all the others you need to rinse with water. the water is what kills the whole process and the rusting starts all over again. kind of senseless to me. i think i am going to have to do a couple tests. if i can leave the stuff on and the epoxy will adhere to the ospho film then this might be good. i would still prefer bare metal but certain things this would work great for.
DOH! I had mixed a dilute batch of Ospho in an old Dupont 5717S container and was quoting my spiel from the back of that bottle - you are correct, sir!

Russ
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