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Old 08-22-2009, 11:25 PM
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Competition Engineering ladderbar vs. 4 link rear halfs?

i have a 1956 ford f100 and am goin to buy a Competition Engineering rear half and dont know wether i should buy the ladder bar or the 4 link setup i am building the truck as street strip style truck with about 5-600hp when im done with it with about 3.88 to 4.11 gears which one would you go with?

thanx
jacob

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Old 08-23-2009, 05:04 AM
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The 4-link is more adjustable for track conditions if you know what you're doing, the ladder bar is more of a set it up and forget it. Both will provide enough hook. The biggest difference for street driving is that the ladder bar does not allow the car body to "roll over" when turning or on unlevel surfaces such as pulling into or out of driveways and parking lots. This is what makes the ladder bar a poor choice for the street, it binds up the suspension sometimes to the point of lifting a tire off the ground under the stated conditions. The ladder bar should be considered drag only.
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:52 AM
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Go with the Four link !!!! you don't want to waste your money on ladder bars...If your going to be running it on the street..
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:25 AM
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awsome thanx guys
=]

i also will be posting some pics later tonite of my rear end third membe i believe and i need to find out wut it is ie: gear ratio and stuff
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:19 PM
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[IMG]rear third member[/IMG]

[IMG]rear third member 1[/IMG]

[IMG]rear third member 2[/IMG]

[IMG]rear third member 3[/IMG]

heres what it looks like does anyone have an idea?
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:22 PM
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sorry about that here i think this will work

[IMG]rear third member.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]rear third member 1.JPG[/IMG]

[IMG]rear third member 2.JPG[/IMG]

[IMG]rear third member 3.JPG[/IMG]
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:46 PM
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If you want high quality parts and infomation, talk to S&W race car's Don Scholl. CE stuff has never done me any good and I refuse to buy anything with the CE name on it anymore. Yeah, I've had it with them. Tell Don what you have and what you expect from it and he'll help you get what you need.

Don Scholl, V.P. Sales & Marketing
S&W Race Cars
800-523-3353 x112
dscholl@swracecars.com

He cares about the product and how it works for ya....
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranky1
If you want high quality parts and infomation, talk to S&W race car's Don Scholl. CE stuff has never done me any good and I refuse to buy anything with the CE name on it anymore. Yeah, I've had it with them. Tell Don what you have and what you expect from it and he'll help you get what you need.

Don Scholl, V.P. Sales & Marketing
S&W Race Cars
800-523-3353 x112
dscholl@swracecars.com

He cares about the product and how it works for ya....

Thank you for posting this first I buy all of my stuff from S&W and it fits like it is supposed to. They are a chassis shop and have always been one they just saw that the other guys would like to buy quality parts and started their mail order busness. The Comp Enegerning stuff is below par at best, (fits like socks on a chicken comes to mind) and Chassis Engenering is no better and they used to build race cars.

Mike
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:13 PM
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X 3 on the S & W parts, it is all we use, very good quality, better fit and service.
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:58 PM
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awsome thank for the advise guys
i have decided to go with there 4 link rear frame package

it even cheaper than ce and is better so you say =]

thanx =]
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:25 PM
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A little advice on your set up with the four link. For street driving you will get a better ride with your four link bars set as parallel as you can get them, try to get the bottom bar as level to the ground as you can. You might also want to get the rubber bushings in the shocks, instead of the solid rod end type. Then when you take it to the track you can set it up with your instant center located just above the ground just in front of the front tires. You will have to plot this out, either on a level floor, or you can get a four link program from most any of the chassis manufacturers, just try not to move the bottom bar, keep it level with the ground. I am sure that S&W sells one of these programs. As you have been told, S&W is a great bunch of guys to talk to, and Don is on some of the Internet boards, and is very knowledgeable and help full. Good Building !!!!
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Birdsell
A little advice on your set up with the four link. For street driving you will get a better ride with your four link bars set as parallel as you can get them....
Mark has the right idea here. This will avoid link binding while driving on the street.

But, if you're going to do this, why pay extra for a 4link? Instead, consider a 4BAR, where the parallelism is built in. I know they're available from Art Morrison and, I assume, from others.

But, do NOT set them parallel to the ground. This will cause horrible squat and greatly affect your 60 times. Instead, angle them up with a slope equal to the center of gravity height divided by the wheelbase. Or, better yet, install with more slope on the right side than on the left and thereby cancel the driveshaft torque effect which tends to unload the right rear. There's a spreadsheet available at my site.

There's also a spreadsheet for 4link adjustment. (With a 4bar, the link lines intersect at infinity, which is why I suggested the specific slope above. This will give you 100 percent antisquat or, in other words, no squat or rise on launch.)
http://www.racetec.cc/shope
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:11 PM
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Well I shy away from my second post being one that is so controversial as a "which is better question" but here goes. I am customizing a 69 Chevy C20 p/u which has leaf suspension now but I am building a two link aka ladder bar, truck arm, NASCAR type suspension. I originally wanted a four link and spent hours studying up on anti squat, roll center, instant center etc... and came to the conclusion that the ladder bar suspension was better for my application. The very same suspension that is on the standard C10 p/u and was also adopted by NASCAR and is now standard on all vehicles on the track. True the ladder bar is relatively rigid if you set it up that way but if it is done with the correct bushings it is actually a very supple suspension. The roll center is so close to the center that the correct bushing will allow it to articulate quite a bit. Also there is zero axle wrap, bump steer and the pinion angle change is almost unnoticeable since the arms are so long. It does use a lot of space under the car but I think for a low maintenance, set it once and forget it suspension, it is too quickly kicked to the curb as being archaic and not as capable to deliver hp to the road as some of the more complex systems out there.
There is a lot problems that can occur with a four link until you get it set just right. Then is right for the track right for the street? not usually. And unless you are willing to spend hours on trial and error tweaking then I would reconsider the truck arm suspension. I was not, so I made my choice.
Mike
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:21 PM
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Barn Owl, I understand what you are saying and agree with your reasoning, but you can't even begin to compare a short, rigid drag race ladder bar to the flexible truck arm set up. They are worlds apart, and the OP was asking about the drag type.
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:39 PM
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That is true the comparison between the two is broad but still he wanted a truck that is a hybrid (street/strip), and usually hybrids are not best at any one job, either you get great strip performance and okay street-ability or vice versa. The truck arm offers plenty of hook up but still gives a streetable ride if he was building a strictly drag truck then yes the short arms would be better I totally agree but that is not what I picked up that the O.P. wanted to do with the truck. My post was intended to give another option for track/street application that woks well for both, not compare a drag suspension to a street suspension. The likelihood of axle hop is much greater in a four link that is set soft for the street.
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