confused and can't find the information - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2009, 10:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: northwestern Illinois
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
confused and can't find the information

husband is building a chevy 427. Read somewhere that in 1970 a 427 produced 450 hp. in a Chevelle I believe. Where can I find the engine specs for that engine? We want to copy it.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2009, 10:57 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: alabama
Posts: 192
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
has alot to do with fuel quality back then even if you copied it to the T if it ran right on todays fuel it wouldnt make that you would have to tweak some things n probably end up useing race fuel..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2009, 11:09 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: northwestern Illinois
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
fuel and lead

We have already figured that we Would definately have to use racing fuel.. or and would a lead additive make todays gas...usuable? or isn't the octane high enough?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2009, 11:34 PM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 8,964
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 378 Times in 347 Posts
Rtyauch301 is correct about the fuel issue, you don't want to exactly copy the 69-70 engine due to it's high compression requiring racing fuel in todays world, unless you really want a high compression race fuel engine.

There was no 427" in any Chevy in 1970, after 1969 it was phased out and replaced in the lineup by the 454", the big dog engine for the 70 was a 454" 450 hp rated high compression solid lifter engine. The last 427" was 1969 in Full-size(Impala) and the Corvette, and 427's were never installed into any year Chevelle except for rare "tuner" cars like the Yenko, Baldwin-Motion, and Dick Harrell dealership cars that were actually 396 cars that were then converted to 427 engines by these respective dealerships parts department. These specialty cars are extremely rare.(Needle in a haystack rare).

The '70 "454" engine featured 11-1 compression forged pistons, big valve Rectangle port cylinder heads featuring 2.19" intake and 1.88" exhaust valves, heavy duty connecting rods with 7/16" bolts, a forged steel crank, 4-bolt mains, .520" lift solid lifter camshaft, aluminum dual plane intake, and an 850 cfm vacuum secondary Holley carburetor.

These 1970 engines carried the highest factory produced hp rating for a Chevy Big Block and were Chevy's last High Compression engines.

The highest hp 427" engines were the 425 hp 4-barrel engines from the full size cars and Corvettes, and the 435 hp Three 2 barrel carb equipped Corvette only 427's. These 427 engines were built only from 1966-69, and like I said, never offered from the factory in the Chevelle(or the Nova either).

Adding lead additive only helps reduce valve seat wear, you will still need high octane fuel as the lead additive does nothing for octane. Octane boosters won't help enough either, you will need real race fuel or aviation fuel.

If you want engine specs for the 450 hp 454" engine, just search '1970 LS6 454'. LS6 was the factory option code for that engine.

Last edited by ericnova72; 12-16-2009 at 11:58 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 04:53 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: northwestern Illinois
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wow, thanks for the information...I now realize that I should get my facts straight befor asking any questions as my husband informed me this morning that it was a 454 question i was seeking not the 427. you are very knowledgeable indeed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 05:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: northwestern Illinois
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
and i did search what you said...the ls6...not REAL extensively as I found only alot of cars for sale. Got an inside scoop of where to go?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 05:05 AM
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: PICTURE TEST
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: york pa
Age: 52
Posts: 2,795
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
build

Can you get us the information about exactly what your husband wants to do with the engine?? Is it going to be street driven only, raced, what car is it going in etc.

There are many ways to build a 454 with 450hp and make it an pleasure to drive. If you build it exactly like the LS-6 engine it will be a brick at the lower end. they had a huge rectangle port head on them that didn't start working until 5500 rpm or so.

I can give you spec's on a pump gas 454 that will be excellent on the low end, fun to drive (you will not be able to get the smile off of your husbands face for weeks) very dependable etc..

Not trying to change his mind, just trying to get him a nice engine.


Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 05:07 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chillicothe oh
Age: 47
Posts: 1,445
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Type in LS-6 and 454, chevy took the legendary name and applied it to newer small blocks changing it to ls6 in their nomenclature.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 11:16 AM
starnest's Avatar
elkyholic
 

Last journal entry: Center Link Installed
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 60
Posts: 327
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
I think that the 450hp in your first post put everyone on the track for the LS-6 (454) engine. In 1970 there were other 454 engines used, notably is the LS-5 with rated hp at 345, 360, and 390 with oval port - "closed" chamber design heads. Additionally there were other 454 engines with "open" chamber design heads used in some passenger cars and trucks.

What you want to know really depends on what you and your husband are trying to do. There are only two reasons to build the LS-6 engine, either to race or to build an LS-6 clone/tribute/replica (I assume that if you spent the $100k for a real LS-6 car then you wouldn't be seeking info on the board).

If you just want to build a nice 454 engine for a restoration, then the LS-5 is the path I would recommend. Using a MK IV block (castings 3963512 or 3969854) and oval port cylinder heads (castings 3964280 or 3964290) will provide the correct factory look on the outside (date code matching is an option). Just add the correct covers, brackets, accessories, etc and you will have a correct 454 engine.

If you just want to build a nice 454 engine for a street car then correctness is less of an issue and you have a wider choice of block and heads. I used a later block from an '87 Chevy truck added some oval port heads (cast 3993820) and expect to make about 550 hp with a few goodies. If you're interested I can send you more detailed information on my engine build and share some tips and ideas.

By the way, I think it's cool that you are interested in this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 10:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: northwestern Illinois
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I keep telling him that he has to decide if he wants to strictly race it or drive it around for fun. Getting a man to make a decision and stick to it is impossible. Now he asked me to ask you all if anyone knows where to get pistons....summit is back ordered until june. He wants replacement pistons for 1970 454, bore 4.310. stroke 4.00 and .60 over. 6.135 rod..Today he is saying that he will keep this motor the way he has gotten it so far and build another one down the road with the horsepower that he has always dreamed. This motor is going in a 78 corvette.He has build it so the whole front end tilts up so the motor is easy to get to. Only being able to use Racing Fuel would be a pain as the only place around here to get it is some ways away. I think the car has a 12 gallon tank..We would probably run out of gas just trying to get to the fuel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 10:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: northwestern Illinois
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
P.S. and to KStar above I would love you to give me some specs on the 454 you mentioned that would keep a smile on his face. I think he is getting confused by all the math. The motor is going in a 78 corvette. It is being built from the ground up. Right now it is bare framed. Rear end narrowed. He has put great huge tires up underneath the car and tubbed the body. He at first wanted to just race it on the weekends, and also drive it a little around town. Now after a little pressure from the better half he is coming around to having something he can drive daily if wanting to. He has a stock 454 block and crank. 3964291 heads. 4.310 bore,6.135 rods(?) 4.00 stoke. a ls6 ish cam from lunati....help! looking for pistons.....he first wanted some hi-compression pistons...like 11:1 but I think will come off that. help us figure out what we are doing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 10:16 PM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 8,964
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 20
Thanked 378 Times in 347 Posts
Unless he only plans on using race fuel, the replacement 1970 454 450 hp pistons won't be what he needs, they are a high compression piston. No good if he wants to run pump gas.

He needs to have the cylinder heads he plans to use(for the combustion chamber size, to figure compression ratio) and a fuel type chosen before you can decide what piston to use and where to get it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 10:17 PM
ogre's Avatar
the 'Duracell Project'
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Motown
Posts: 1,375
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 92 Times in 85 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wifeseekinginfo
Getting a man to make a decision and stick to it is impossible.
i ressemble that
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 04:54 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: northwestern Illinois
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ok...... so this morning he plans on using racing fuel. wants 11:1 compression. has 106cc chamber volume.and is running #3964291 closed chamber heads, rectangle /square port heads. Any thoughts? Where to find the pistons?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 05:05 AM
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: PICTURE TEST
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: york pa
Age: 52
Posts: 2,795
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
engine

Those pistons are on a nation wide back order. I know because I have a brand new set in the box with one piston that is .015" small from the factory.I called all my warehouses for a single and none exist. The problem is that Speed Pro isn't filling back orders, oh they will take the order, but never fill it. You will wait for years and never get those pistons.


This would would be some real basic details.

10.5:1 static compression.
Edelbrock Aluminum RPM heads.
Solid roller cam 240@.050 range 110 to 112 LSA
VC jr intake.

That will make killer low end grunt, what you feel in the seat of your pants.Also thats what will blow the tires off of the car at 1/2 throttle. You can run any 93 pump gas that you want to in it with the correct plugs and timing set-up. It would be a trouble free engine that you could enjoy.

I can give the details if he really wants to go this route.

Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.