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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:19 PM
Chris Ryan
 
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one more thing. Do NOT take out bracing, until you have the body on the frame, shimmed properly and tightened down. This little tid bit will also help you preserve gaps.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:28 PM
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All good information 48 Cad and I thank you for that, just wish I would have thought to mention it myself.

Best to you
Ray
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for all the good advice guys, the floors weren't really all that bad, just the common areas below the feet, the rockers are solid, no visible rust, I have no idea what the original 1/4's looked like because it has a pair partially welded ones already on as we'll as partial outer wheel houses but they left the rusty inners on it so I spliced in the inners, boy was that not fun. I recently did a 68 Camaro and while it was on the rotisserie I did the 1/4's, wheel houses, floors, rockers, trunk floor and drop offs and the thing never budged,the only bracing I had was from front to back of the door jambs, but being that this one is a convertible I felt it may need some help.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:46 PM
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It is actually pretty simple as the 2 caddys I did was by myself, that is to remove and reinstall. Try doing one of those big monsters by yourself without a lift. First off you must have the wheels removed from the rottisorie, some of these units are welded on and this WILL NOT work if this is the case. You simply position the rottisorie right under both rocker panels with your attaching arms (the areas you would otherwise bolt to your body) facing under the rocker panels as you would with a 4 post lift. Then you simply jack the body off the frame working one side then the other, with the caddys being so rear heavy I placed an engine hoist at the rear and placed a strap to the trunk latch and then jacked that simutaineisly with the rest of the rottiserie. It must all be jacked a little at a time making sure that it is all coming off evenly. The other thing to remember is the placement of the rottisorie at the right point as to balance out the body as good as possible. Then all you need to do is jack it high enough to roll the frame out from under the body, and the rottisorie will jack that body as high as you need to go (will never get it high enough safely with a floor jack). Once the frame is out of the way you simply reverse the procedure and set the body down on four jackstands. Lowering the body is a little tricky as it wants to bind up as you lower it down, just get a big hammer and tap the rottisorie as you lower it down and it will go. Then all that is left to do is put your wheels back on it and set this jig up on both ends as you would normally. Hope I explained it well enough, it is really just common sense.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
Bear in mind I usually build older cars which may or may not have the original strength left in them but I have knowledge of 2 different convertibles that ended up with severe problems while being taken off the frame without doors on them. Bracing is cheap and easy. Even if there is only one chance in 20 of having any issues it is not worth taking that chance. One of them folded in half. BRACE IT. I also recommend doing it in such a way that you can hang the doors and verify gaps as you work.

John L
Guys, I have to go with your suggestions, what would it hurt. I have done them but I have never put one of these big sixties convertibles on a rotisserie, there would be a lot of stress and why not, as mentioned, the tubing is cheap and it doesn't take a whole lot of work.

John, you have one the weakest bodies ever, your 36 Roadster, I did one once and that cowl to floor area, holy cow there isn't much support there at all. That and the weight of the doors pulling down. Just unbolt the cowl from the frame and the doors sag.

Brian
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:16 PM
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Thanks for the post 4speed. I hope I am not steeling the OP's thread. Another option is to take 4 pieces of all thread and attach them to the body with angle brackets attached at the cowl and with makeshift points at rear. Then attach the other end of the all thread to chains attached to the ceiling joists. When I did the floorpan/firewall swap on my '49 Merc I picked the body off the frame this way. It also allowed me to safely work under it and slowly lower it back down on the Buick floorpan as I trimmed it to fit. All done without any outside help. I had an 8 foot ceiling in the basement which made it simpler to rig up.



You can just barely see the allthread but I think you will get the idea.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Guys, I have to go with your suggestions, what would it hurt. I have done them but I have never put one of these big sixties convertibles on a rotisserie, there would be a lot of stress and why not, as mentioned, the tubing is cheap and it doesn't take a whole lot of work.

John, you have one the weakest bodies ever, your 36 Roadster, I did one once and that cowl to floor area, holy cow there isn't much support there at all. That and the weight of the doors pulling down. Just unbolt the cowl from the frame and the doors sag.

Brian
LOL yea, and that is if all the wood in that Murry body is good. If it isn't it just folds up in a little pile. Kind of like your T-shirt in the dresser drawer.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:25 PM
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I am not sure I follow what you are describing here 4speed.

John L

Well John, I think I'll keep the wheels on my rotisserie and use my hoist.

Ray
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:03 AM
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If I can do it then so can you....................mabey I should shoot a you tube video.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr4speed View Post
It is actually pretty simple as the 2 caddys I did was by myself, that is to remove and reinstall. Try doing one of those big monsters by yourself without a lift. First off you must have the wheels removed from the rottisorie, some of these units are welded on and this WILL NOT work if this is the case. You simply position the rottisorie right under both rocker panels with your attaching arms (the areas you would otherwise bolt to your body) facing under the rocker panels as you would with a 4 post lift. Then you simply jack the body off the frame working one side then the other, with the caddys being so rear heavy I placed an engine hoist at the rear and placed a strap to the trunk latch and then jacked that simutaineisly with the rest of the rottiserie. It must all be jacked a little at a time making sure that it is all coming off evenly. The other thing to remember is the placement of the rottisorie at the right point as to balance out the body as good as possible. Then all you need to do is jack it high enough to roll the frame out from under the body, and the rottisorie will jack that body as high as you need to go (will never get it high enough safely with a floor jack). Once the frame is out of the way you simply reverse the procedure and set the body down on four jackstands. Lowering the body is a little tricky as it wants to bind up as you lower it down, just get a big hammer and tap the rottisorie as you lower it down and it will go. Then all that is left to do is put your wheels back on it and set this jig up on both ends as you would normally. Hope I explained it well enough, it is really just common sense.
All I'm saying is that it was implied that it was "no sweat", your first line in this post is "It is actually pretty simple as the 2 caddys I did was by myself,". I thought that perhaps you installed an ingenious method of hydraulics on your rotisserie where you can raise or lower the front and the back at the same time. I've been thinking of how I could do that myself at minimal cost for years and was hoping you came up with it.

I feel it is easier with a lift and some buddies. I don't have to take my wheels of my rotisserie or anything. Before I had equipment, I've used the help of many of my friends to hand lift a body, set it on stand to attain the right height for the rotisserie, it wasn't easy, it was simple, hard work and not dangerous, mind you it wasn't a Cadillac either it was a 70 Road Runner, a bit of a difference in weight. It's always a precarious job transferring a body, especially a heavy body like a Cadillac onto a rotisserie and what you did is great, it worked. Again all I'm saying is for safety, ease of movement and the security of the vehicle, I use the equipment I have available and even with equipment, enlist the help of people to either raise or lower the body into position. For me, that's common sense.

We all have different ways of doing things and if this is the direction you want to go in and it works for you, all the more power to you.

Ray
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2012, 05:28 AM
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Ray, I was asked how I did this using nothing more than a rottisorie, and simple transforming it into a 4 post lift. No this is not some fancy re-enginnered contraption that a real skilled welder would have to fabricate. There are a lot of guys out there that do not have access to a lift to do this job the easy way, nor in some cases as mine was were even a few strong friends would be able to help out. In my case we are talking about probably one of the heaviest bodys out there, a 57 caddy and a 54 caddy. Beleive me when I say you are not lifting that off the frame with the help of friends. By taking the wheels off this jig you are basicly creating a makeshift 4 post lift that cannot move, even with the weight I was dealing with, I am guessing 3000 to 3500 pounds and that is just the body with doors and trunk still attached. It can be done this way at home without a lift. However if you try this type of lifting with wheels attached, you get into serious trouble real fast because now everything is GOING to move as you try to lift it, becoming EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:39 AM
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Your right, not all people have access to a lift, your right that you would need more manpower than in all probability possible to lift a car that heavy by hand, the older Cadillac is a very heavy body. I also understand and appreciate what your saying, however you make it sound like there is nothing to it, you used words like 'No Sweat It is actually pretty simple" ", "as the 2 caddys I did was by myself", "It can be done this way at home without a lift" and "Common Sense". You also said "Lowering the body is a little tricky as it wants to bind up as you lower it down, just get a big hammer and tap the rottisorie as you lower it down and it will go". It wants to bind, and get a big hammer, those 2 words in the same sentence while working on a "I am guessing 3000 to 3500 pounds and that is just the body with doors and trunk still attached" sound pretty scary to me.

I'm not trying to rag on you but, right now we have 3 people viewing this site, you don't know if they are reading this and saying WOW, I can do it all by myself like Mr. 4speed did. What happens if they try it without any help and the car comes falling down when he's putting the jack stands underneath it? Not everyone may take the time and caution like you did to do it without a catastrophic failure happening. I wouldn't want to be the guy that posted this method of putting a car on a rotisserie in the event that somebody gets injured. It's difficult enough to transfer a vehicle on a rotisserie with proper equipment and help.

Seriously, I was very interested in how you changed your rotisserie into a 4 post hoist but I wouldn't advise anybody to try and do it this way, especially by themselves, I have a conscience and hate to see people get hurt.

I may be completely wrong here, lets hear from other people and if I am wrong, I will publicly apologise.

Ray
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2012, 07:47 AM
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Listen Ray there is nothing personal here and no I am not trying to attack your posting but the fact of the matter is you are not going to stop acciendents from happening no matter what. This way of using the rottisorie is not my idea, it is actually the way they show it being done in the paperwork you get when you purchase an Autotweerller, in fact it shows a 59 caddy conv body being lifted this way. So all I am doing is simply giving out info that has worked for me with out any trouble at all. Now there are some people that will turn simple procedures into major projects just because they want to make sure they cover every possible angle they can without having anything go wrong. That is fine with me and I do understand this well. As long as the balance point is correct at your rocker panel when you start lifting there is not going to be any problems with the car "falling" off this thing as you may think. But that does not mean there will not be any cases of "catastroffic" failure, no matter what. As like you I would hate to see any one getting hurt doing this type of thing and we can both agree on that.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:22 AM
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Did Autowheeler tell you in the instructions to use a big hammer when it binds? Did they use phrases like pretty simple, or where there phrases like use caution? I'm not trying to make everything into a big job but, I do want to let people know that there are dangers involved in doing it the way Autowheeler may have suggested in their paperwork.

I'm more concerned about oversimplifying a procedure and making it sound like any novice without experience can do it...I lost a good friend 38 years ago when I was working for a major tire company and he didn't but the ears up properly on the lift arms when he put a Van on a hoist. The Van came off backwards and pinned him between the garage door and the Van....Simple procedure, anybody can do it, no sweat. It was his mistake but, he had done it hundreds of times in the past...without a problem!!!,...I always try to err on the side of caution and try to remember who I'm giving advice to and sometimes I still have problems.

Ray
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:24 PM
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Here are a few pics I dug up of one of the cads i took off the frame
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