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Old 03-12-2012, 06:14 PM
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cooling question 461 pontiac in 32 chevy

Got the 461 pontiac up in running in my 32 . I have a weird cooling issue ..

First;
I have a Ron Davis Aluminum radiator with full aluminum shroud and Spal electric fan with variable speed controller .

Heavy duty Mezier electric water pump

Have no thermostat in but have had a 180 in it and it acts almost the same just a little hotter .

Only have 12 miles on car but have started up at least 10 times up to temperature

Issue ;
Sitting idling stays at 175 . Go out on the road and she creeps to 190 -200 . Stop and idle and goes back down to 175 .

What do you think about this ? You would think it would cool down with more air moving ..

Could I be running lean at cruise speed ? Running a 66 tri power with idle circuit mods opened up some ..

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Old 03-12-2012, 08:39 PM
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Just a thought. You got a coil in the bottom rad hose. Could be collapsing and restricting flow. Easy to check. Squeeze it when it's cold.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:57 PM
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A few thoughts..... 1. 200 isn't hot and you NEED a thermostat, if they didn't the auto mfg's wouldn't waste the money to engineer theirs. 2. Idling at 175 is damn good, it gets a little hotter on the road because you're putting a load on the engine. If this is a newly built engine it is actually running pretty cool. I personally (and a few others here) don't like an elec. water pump for street use......but to each his own.

As far as running lean...who knows, run the car down a quiet road at 60 in second gear if you can, kill the engine and pop it into neutral. Then pull the plugs and read them, if they are white or VERY light tan then you may be lean ...or timing issue. If they are a nice tan color it should be running right. You say you only have 12 miles on it...go out and DRIVE it, if it gets to say 230 or so then start worrying a little. Make sure you have the correct temp sender and a GOOD gauge.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327NUT
A few thoughts..... 1. 200 isn't hot and you NEED a thermostat, if they didn't the auto mfg's wouldn't waste the money to engineer theirs. 2. Idling at 175 is damn good, it gets a little hotter on the road because you're putting a load on the engine. If this is a newly built engine it is actually running pretty cool. I personally (and a few others here) don't like an elec. water pump for street use......but to each his own.
327NUT, You don't run a thermostat with a constant velocity electric water pump. At least, I never have! I think RWENUTS hit the nail on the head. I've seen it happen before.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:48 AM
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You know what........you're right. I don't run electric water pumps so that didn't even register with me. Be nice if it was just a collapsed hose.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:41 AM
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I am using cool flex hose top and bottom . So no collapsing. The electric water pump is used due to clearance issues to radiator /fan and vacuum evac system . So I really don't have a option there ... The reason i pulled out the thermostat is because I felt is was conflicting with the fan controller. So thinking about it last night at idle the electric water pump I am sure moving a lot more water 40GPM . But at cruising speed the temp moves up due to less water flow than a convectional water pump . I agree I need to get out and keep driving it but it just bothers me the engine is acting just the opposite of any other I have had . Idle=hotter, on the road=cools down ..
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:33 AM
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Any vacuum leaks under the secondary carbs, bad spring in the power valve or under-jetted in the primary, all can cause the TriPower to run "lean" and 'build" heat. That is, at low speed it's fine. As time goes by at higher speeds, heat just keeps "growing". I would suggest a chassis dyno session and pay close attention to the A/F mix and HC/CO emmissions.

Excessive "retard" in the ignition timing can do the same thing.

FWIW

Jim
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:55 AM
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So I was looking into A/F mixture set up to use a a tool for initial set ups . Anyone know of a kit that is not fancy just to uses as a tool ?
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:35 AM
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Normal running temp would be 210 on anything stock. So you have nothing to worry about. I don,t have any electric water pump exp but a lot of HD motor home exp. I've had customers do all kinds of things to get there temps down to 160 or so and they found out the rig just runs poor and gets crappy gas mileage at that temp so smile and realize 210 all day long is wonderful! Jim
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:53 PM
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Ok I jetted it up 5 jet sizes . And it runs ~ 200 from 212 . Keep in mind I can only fit 16 x 16 core radiator and currently have a 30 deg drop from input side to output . So it is doing it job . I do have trans cooler lines plumbed to radiator also . If I removed them to a remote trans cooler would this help coolant cooling ?
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:12 AM
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So fattening it up didn't help.

Which cylinder heads do you have? Where is initial timing set? What is "total" timing and where is it "all in"?

FormulaJim, while those temps are "normal" for modern cars (with catalyst), it's a bit high for cars from the '60s and early '70s. 165 is considered "ideal" for dyno sessions (SAE standards) and gasoline. 180 is "average" for a cruise temperature under a continous load. Pontiac V8s with the later cooling system (like the electric pump on this one) should run under 180 most of the time. The head gaskets can "take" the higher temps, it just makes the engine perform a little less and MAY "shorten" the life a bit.

Jim
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:43 AM
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Edelbrock Al heads , Int timing 14 total with total timing light +20 So 34 total . I will have to look again but I think I have it all in at ~ 2,700 . Cruse rpm ~ 2,500rpm..

Is it a good idea to remove the trans cooler lines from radiator and have them going to a separate cooler ? I am running a 3500 stall ...

Should I try moving the timing around like retard it a bit to see if to runs cooler ?
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:49 PM
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Does your distributer not have a vacuum advance? If not, that may be your problem. Not enough timing at cruising speed. Just a thought.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:09 PM
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No, MSD Pro-Billet mech advance... So what would make a difference a couple of deg of advance or more ?
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:31 PM
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Many years ago, I had a Pontiac 461 that I raced and drove on the street. When at the track, I unplugged the vacuum to the distributer and capped the source. If I left it unhooked and drove on the street, the engine would heat up. You can't just advance the timing or detination will destroy your pistons, under any load. I would trade your distributor for one with vacuum, if you can find one of equal quality.
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