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-   -   Copper Compressor Piping Question (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/copper-compressor-piping-question-137599.html)

WagonMan 04-25-2008 04:59 PM

Copper Compressor Piping Question
 
Have been pricing copper to redo my compressor piping and noticed in the fitting section they had a copper fitting bonding paste with a pressure rating of 500 psi. It seems to be some kind of epoxy. Has anyone seen or used this stuff? I seems I could install everything in place instead of pulling it partially down to solder each joint.

Charles

robs ss 04-26-2008 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WagonMan
Have been pricing copper to redo my compressor piping and noticed in the fitting section they had a copper fitting bonding paste with a pressure rating of 500 psi. It seems to be some kind of epoxy. Has anyone seen or used this stuff? I seems I could install everything in place instead of pulling it partially down to solder each joint.

Charles

I'm not sure Charles, but are you sure you want to use copper, I just saw this where they mentioned copper on this thread. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=17513 Anyway its not to long a thread if you care to see what they have to say.

Rob

http://www.1969supersport.com

WagonMan 04-26-2008 01:39 PM

I have been following the threads there also as well as asking my question and as of now haven't gotten a reply. In my case I will only have about 50' of piping and the price isn't too much different. Just thinking about the ease of installation with the copper and bonding paste vs cutting & threading black pipe in the correct lengths. Just thinking I need to replace my 15 year old PVC even tho it is Schedule 80 instead of 40. I keep hearing all the horror stories and think I probably need to do something soon.

Charles

oldred 04-26-2008 04:39 PM

Rob some of the views in that link on using Copper simply border on being just plain stupid! One says Copper is bad because the pipe gets hot so the air will not cool? :confused: Where the dickens does he think that heat comes from? One guy even says you don't want the pipe to radiate heat! :rolleyes: A couple of those guys have it right but unfortunately that's the way the conversation goes all too often when you get a bunch together discussing the best way to plumb a compressor. Based on doing this professionally for well over thirty years and having seen air plumbed in just about every configuration one might imagine I can confidently state that Copper is THE best choice for clean dry air. Now having said that I do not mean that black iron or galvanized is bad and using either may save some money if it is done properly and of sufficient length to cool the air enough to do the job. As for the rust problem of using black iron or the galvanized flaking there may be some instance where that has happened but I have not seen it to be a problem of any consequence in either case. I have seen some minor flaking of material on newly installed galvanized systems but there will likely be junk in most any system the first couple of hours it is used. I have also seen rust in black iron (as well as some rust in galvanized pipe) but this has been minor and no problem at all, just some rust showing up in old piping and some trapped by the filter. In either case a filter will eliminate the problem, if a problem it is, and if someone is trying to operate a system without a filter they will have more problems than just rust or small flakes in the air! Copper is not cheap but it will eliminate rust or flaking if someone is concerned about that and it is THE best for cooling the air for moisture removal-period!

Kampr 04-26-2008 06:25 PM

I put in galvanized because it was cheaper and I'm satisfied with it. If I had it to do all over again I would go with copper because of the ease of installation.

I don't know anything about the paste but why can't you solder with the pipe in place? You could just do one or two joints at a time to make sure everything is going to plan. Plumbers used to do it all the time before they started using plastic. I've done it several times. If you're worried about a fire hazard just keep somebody nearby with a fire extinguisher

oldred 04-26-2008 09:07 PM

Kampr is right soldering is easy to do and very quickly makes for a solid and leak free joint. I have never used any kind of glue which I assume would need a set-up time before reaching workable strength and soldering is so quick and easy I never saw the need for anything else. Still with today's adhesives it may be worth checking out. :)

robs ss 04-26-2008 11:45 PM

Oldred, do you have a picture of your air line setup, and do you use any dessicant or air dryers. And do you use copper?

I used to have copper, and took it all out and went to black pipe.

http://www.1969supersport.com

Rob

oldred 04-27-2008 12:37 AM

My system is all 1" Copper but that is overkill, just pipe that was scrounged (free :) ) over the years. It also is covered by ceiling panels, most of it anyway, so a pic really would not show much. It is nothing exotic just a bit over 50' total sloped up from the compressor with two Sharpe regulators/water traps/hose reels and the heaviest demand it ever sees is occasional use of my small sandblaster. The only dryer I use, besides the Sharpe water separators, is an in-line desiccant snake when I spray paint. As I have said several times in the past I personally like black iron for air system piping I have seen it used a lot and the faults with it that sometimes are mentioned, such as internal rust fouling tools, just seems to not really be a fault at all. Although I prefer Copper I would not hesitate to use black iron if my only concern was rust and on systems over 50' or so even the cooling advantage of the Copper is lost in most cases, the advantage is not really a huge one anyway but on shorter systems it can help quite a bit. I like Copper for other reasons as well, I find it easier to install and easy to modify later if necessary. I can not think of an instance where the advantages Copper might offer would make it worth replacing an iron pipe system unless the system needed replacing for other reasons anyway and while I am sure your black iron system is a very good set-up, that is more than adequate and probably will last just about forever, I can't help but wonder why you would replace a Copper system with the iron since the Copper was already there?

Kampr 04-27-2008 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robs ss
Oldred, do you have a picture of your air line setup, and do you use any dessicant or air dryers. And do you use copper?

I used to have copper, and took it all out and went to black pipe.

http://www.1969supersport.com

Rob

Just out of curiosity, why did you replace the copper? Was there something you didn't like about it or did you just change the way your system was laid out?

Danny

robs ss 04-27-2008 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampr
Just out of curiosity, why did you replace the copper? Was there something you didn't like about it or did you just change the way your system was laid out?

Danny

I started out with 5/8'' copper, and if I can remember for sure, maybe 50', then I moved some of it around, and it looked kind of bad from making more bends in it. Anyway, I didn't run it right to start with, and I read about 3/4'', and I believe I was looking at the price difference back then, so I went to the black pipe.

Anyway I gave it to somebody, but its been so long I can't remember who.

Back when I did it I read someplace that black pipe was cheaper and better, and that started the whole process.

Then I got another sandblaster and the water started showing up in the black pipe, it went downhill from there. :)

Then more reading and more changes and more pipe, now I have a good system. A case of trial and error, but my runs of copper looked like a two year old put them in, and that was bothering me.

The other thing with the copper, I didn't realize you could buy it in straight lengths like pipe, I had visions of uncoiling 3/4'' and trying to make it look good, yeah I know, I was born under a rock and never got out in the outside world. :)

Thats my story :)

So, maybe copper is better, I have been searching google to find out what I can, and I'm still not sure which one works the best as far as cooling that hot air out of the compressor.

I know I run through 1100 lbs of sand without having to back flush my sandblaster pot, but I probably have 160' of pipe run all over the garage.

Maybe a 120' to the sandblaster, and 150' to the bead blaster.

And this is with out dessicant or air dryers, just pipe and sharpe f88 filters.

I probably got lucky.

Rob

http://www.1969supersport.com

Centerline 04-27-2008 11:22 AM

I've been using 3/4" copper for years with no problems. Works perfectly and is reliable.

robs ss 04-27-2008 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centerline
I've been using 3/4" copper for years with no problems. Works perfectly and is reliable.

How many feet, and do you have a picture of it.

Rob

http://www.1969supersport.com

Danny G. 04-27-2008 03:36 PM

Here's my 3/4" copper setup. Its been working so well in the last few years, with tons of abuse having only a 15 amp single stage.

Many folks here, Oldred especially has been a great factor in me deciding whats best. I could not have asked for more from these guys. Makes me feel lucky to have found this place. These pics are from a few years back, I have a nice tool chest now with more quality tools too :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/HPIM0096.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/HPIM0097.jpg
First drop after 25 ft. I used 1/2" pipe on this on. No filter, just reg, mainly for tools used in short periods like my impacts and blow gun.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/HPIM0083.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/HPIM0081.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/027f113c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/HPIM0086.jpg
My prep drop 40 ft away with a 40 micron HF filter. And my paint drop, 65 ft away with a 5 micron Sharpe F88. Both filters have been working great! Air hog tools I notice tend to keep the air quite cold even after hours of use with hardly but a few drops in the water traps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...wall3drop1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/HPIM0073.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/HPIM0066.jpg

oldred 04-27-2008 05:12 PM

Rob, as I said before after about 50' or so the black iron will have so much surface area to radiate the heat that it will about over take the Copper's advantage so with as much pipe as you are using the Copper would probably make little or no difference in how well the system would cool the air prior to the separator. If I understand correctly you have nearly 300' total? With that much line the black iron would be quite a bit cheaper than Copper even though the price difference between Copper and black iron is not as great as it was a couple of years ago. About the only real argument here in favor of the Copper over iron would be the rusting problem of the iron which IMO is overblown and not really much of a problem anyway. If you have 160' of 3/4" iron pipe between the compressor and separator (a Sharpe no less :thumbup: ) I just can not imagine having a moisture problem as long as it is plumbed properly which it sounds like it is.

Centerline 04-27-2008 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robs ss
How many feet, and do you have a picture of it.

Rob

http://www.1969supersport.com

Don't have any pics at the moment but in my new shop my total run is about 65 feet. Comes out of my compressor, travels across the wall for about 30 feet slightly sloping down. At the end of that run I have a "T" fitting that goes up and down. On the down side is a valve I can use to dump water and/or air pressure. The line then travels up about 10 feet into a 90 and then another 10 feet into another 90 and then down a post to my remote regulator and then to my hose. I also have a moisture dump/valve just before the regulator I can use if need be.

Later...


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