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Old 11-17-2003, 11:34 PM
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cork or rubber gasket?

Greetings! I have installed my first freshly rebuild 350 tranny. Filled it up. The ride was great, it shifted quick, the 1-2 was around 2500-3k rpms (shift kit).

Came home, shut it off and found a nasty leak. Oil cooler lines are dry. The dipstick tube sips a little, but the major part is the cork gasket that was supplied with the rebuilt kit. It leaks around the corner. I can see the fluid getting through. The bolts were torqued to 13 ft in a star pattern.

I did some searching and there are basically 2 groups of people out there: ones who prefer to use RTV stuff only, and the others - are gasket type.

Should I get a rubber gasket? I thought RTV can get inside and 'pollute' the clean internals?

Thanks!
Denis
'67 Camaro RS

PS JS Witney's chrome pan made in Taiwan with the drain plug that leaked right away. What a piece of $35 #$%t.

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Old 11-18-2003, 12:41 AM
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Silly question but did you re-torque the pan bolts. Cork gaskets are good , but need to be re-torqued after a short time and sometimes again. I put brush on Permatex on the equipment side and nothing on the pan side (allows for pan removal ) Silicone is good and has it's place but too many people us way too much and it can really mess things up. I just got a Th400 pan from Jegs and it had the Taiwan sticker on it too! The only way around that sad fact now days is $$$$.
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Old 11-18-2003, 08:52 AM
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Yes, I retorqued the bolts yesterday. The same story - nice size puddle (about 1/4 qt) under the pan on the floor.

Can you eleborate on the 'equipment side'? You put the Permatex on the gasket mating the pan, right? What's the Permatex? Some kind of RTV? Do you know the full name of the product?

I am going to drain fluid tonight and put a rubber gasket to see if it fixes the leak. Can I use that Permatex on the rubber gasket?

Thanks for your reply!
Denis
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Old 11-18-2003, 09:58 AM
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While you have the pan off check the flange to make sure it is flat. Use a long straight edge to check from side to side and front to back. Also look at all of the bolt holes. If they are slightly dimpled due to bolt torque you need to hammer them flat. You may want to put a good sized washer under the bolts to spread the load and keep from dimpling the pan or squashing the gasket.
If you use Permatex get the non-hardening kind. Spread an even coating on both surfaces of the gasket and torque the fasteners down evenly.
Mark
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Old 11-18-2003, 10:38 AM
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Thanks, Mark! I found some Permatex 'The Right Stuff' and 'The Liquid Copper' references on the Internet. Are they both non-hardening?

I will go to PepBoys for my lunch break and see if they have it there.

Denis
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Old 11-18-2003, 02:28 PM
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Permatex #1.."Aviation Form-a-Gasket Sealant Liquid" comes in a 4oz plastic bottle w/brush. #2.. "Form-a gasket #2" non hardening pliable sealant. Comes in a 11oz tube. The liquid is good for thin paper type gaskets and the #2 for thicker cork/rubber, pan & cover type gaskets. The equipment side would be the engine, trans, rear end and such. And everything that Astroracer is right on.
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Old 11-18-2003, 02:50 PM
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Thanks! I bought a bottle of the 'Right Stuff' by Permatex. I will check the aviation type sealants if that doesn't stop my tranny's leaks.
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Old 11-18-2003, 11:56 PM
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Cool

Over the years old time logic has started to make sense. Cork gaskets seal by swelling so if they are coated with sealant they are going to leak. A manual I have from 1946 says to only use a fixative on the outer edge intermittently. Rubber or neoprene gaskets need silicone to seal properly.
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Old 11-19-2003, 08:45 AM
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I checked with 3 stores in town and none carried rubber pan gaskets. They all had FRAM's cork ones.

Besides putting the pan together with the "right stuff", I will try sealing the filler tube on outside as well.

Thanks for your input, guys!
Denis
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:30 PM
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Update: found a rubber gasket at the Souther Auto. The box said not to use any RTV with it. Removed the pan, checked the flatness, purturbing bolt seats etc. Installed the gasket, torqued the bolts to specs. Filled it up.

Test drove the car, no leaks. Came home, parked and here is the 'Neverending Story' again - leaks. Grrrr. The same darn spot (corner of the pan next to the filler tube).

I am going to take the car to the professionals this time. If they want to use RTV, let it be as long as there are no darn leaks. They can put some chemicals in the fluid to trace leaks.

Regards and let all your leaks be gone.

Denis
'67 Camaro RS
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:21 AM
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You may have a porous casting or a cut o-ring around the filler tube. Clean the area real good with laquer thinner before going to the tranny shop. when you get there you will see where it's leaking from.
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:37 AM
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No, I checked. I could see my new o-ring in place, right where it is supposed to be. The leaks are now on both sides of the pan. This morning I had 2 nice big puddles of fluid (driver and passenger sides).

I've made up my mind to finally use that "Right Stuff". I did everything I could _not_ to use it. A friend of mine warned me that it is really hard to take a pan off once it is slealed with RTV. So if it still leaks, I will let tranny shop guys do it for me :-)

Let anti-leaking gods be with you!
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:49 AM
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Taking the pan off is no harder then prying it off with a screw driver... Don't worry about that at all. Goop that S.O.B. up and forget about it...
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Old 11-20-2003, 09:08 AM
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haha, that's what I felt yesterday - darn SOB pan! My wife is laughing her butt off watching me jacking this car up and down all the time. It's time to shut down this entertaining 'show' for her :-))).

I appreciate your input, guys! If it hasn't been for you, I would have never got my guts together to rebuild a transmission.

Denis
'67 Camaro RS
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Old 11-20-2003, 09:29 AM
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Check the detent cable for leakage, I'll bet it's not the pan leaking. I don't know if you used a new detent cable or lost the grommet/O-ring for the old one. What I've noticed with those Autozone replacements is that I had to add an O-ring in combination with the square cut ring/seal that they come with. Otherwise you get the same symptoms you talk about and you will play hell trying to find the leak at first. It cost me a little time and a few bucks replacing a perfectly good pan gasket the first time around.

I use a little grease to hold stubborn pan gaskets in place. I can only think of maybe ONE time where I felt the need to use sealant.
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