Count$ Custom$ - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > General Discussion> Hotrodders' Lounge
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 09:57 AM
Old Fool's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: spokane,wa.
Posts: 1,347
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 40 Times in 34 Posts
Count$ Custom$

I watched an episode the other night of a "surprise" restoration of a 1970 Mustang sportroof.

The owner negotiated a price.
The shop tears the car down to a rolling shell. they discover a poor repair made years ago.
they notify the owner that it will be an additional expense to replace the 2 quarter panels that they had cut off it already.
They say $7000 to replace the missing qp's.
She cant afford that so out of the goodness of the shop owners heart they cut the bill for the panel replacement to $3500 because she is a good friend and customer.
2 qp's cost less than $800 a pair, they already had given the estimate to take it to bare metal and restore.
The only extra costs were the price of the qp's and labor to weld them on. I can not believe they charge $2700 for at most 2 days shop time to fit and weld the new panels on.
At $100 an hr that would only be $1600 labor.
Seems to me Danny hit the jackpot on this "extra".

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:06 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,201
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,336
Thanked 1,167 Times in 1,029 Posts
Personally, I think it's ridiculous that something like this could be "missed". You don't need to strip a car to see stuff like that if you are a pro, there are tell tale signs I think it's pathetic personally. I don't think it's out of line time to replace the quarters, 8 hours on a new Honda but not an old Mustang with rust and removing crap like the brazed on chunks of metal from the old quarters some dude installed in 1980. 20 hours each would be perfectly fine if you ask me. But this is just nuts that a person who calls him self a profession auto restorer would not see this before it's torn down and give an HONEST est as to what it will take to do the car. It's bad business pure and simple.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:20 AM
hduff's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Actual Car Work
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 437
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 43
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
The show is car theater, not car professionals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:30 AM
Speedshift_Sam's Avatar
Mekanicus Automotive Group
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Longmont, Co
Posts: 161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Theater indeed.

As much as I like some of the stuff they work on, I can hardly believe all the "Rookie" stuff that goes on. I'm with you Martin, a trained eye can detect so much before you even dig into the paint. Its amazing what some people call a repair and how easy it is to spot. I've chopped through bazing, seen drywall screws mixed into bondo, window screen, wood putty, pop cans, you name it. And all of them, looked fine at a glance. But check it from a different angle, and bam, they stare right at you. Calibrated eyballs, a calibrated ear, and a 1/4 ounce brass sounding hammer work more efficiently than paint stripper.

Last edited by Speedshift_Sam; 09-27-2013 at 10:32 AM. Reason: To Err is Human....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:42 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,201
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,336
Thanked 1,167 Times in 1,029 Posts
My God, the pinch welds, one GLANCE at a pinch weld in the door jamb, under the rocker, at the wheel well, come on, it takes one little glance, and this is the first thing a pro does when checking out a car, pinch welds and seam sealer, first thing. Even a well done job is easy to see being it's not stock appearing. Unless it was done by a nut job 100 point restoration guy it won't look stock even if it's done well. But to not see that two quarters were changed is just nuts, the receptionist at the shop would see it for goodness sakes.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:52 AM
Speedshift_Sam's Avatar
Mekanicus Automotive Group
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Longmont, Co
Posts: 161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Yep, Pinch pinch.

I suppose I should have said I was referring to rust holes behind wheel openings.... But yep, the pinch tells the whole story. Even someone with one functional eyeball can spot trouble in the pinch.

Last edited by Speedshift_Sam; 09-27-2013 at 11:52 AM. Reason: To Err is Human....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:09 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,201
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,336
Thanked 1,167 Times in 1,029 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedshift_Sam View Post
I suppose I should have said I was referring to rust holes behind wheel openings.... But yep, the pinch tells the whole story. Even someone with one functional eyeball can spot trouble in the pinch.
LOL, yep I think you are right.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:27 PM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
I think those shows should fall under comedy, instead of reality...they do have balls though, I'll give them that. I'd be a little apprehensive to give a quote, not knowing what's underneath (tell tail signs or not...tell tail signs will give you a good indication, taking it down to metal will tell the whole story) on public television and then have to go back to the customer and say whoops...when the proper thing to do is show the customer that there are tell tail signs and that a proper estimate can and will be given when the car is stripped.

Do ya think that maybe the customer is getting the repair done for free because it's on television and they need to get paid in way shape or form...I'm sure if it was reality, another shop in Vegas might watch, let the people know that owned the Mustang that it was BS the way it was handled. I'd be pounding my fist on Danny's counter wondering why the repair and especially the estimate wasn't handled properly in the first place.

So many holes in these shows...and they are made for the average viewing public...the problem is that they aren't educating anyone, just fooling the masses.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:18 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,201
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,336
Thanked 1,167 Times in 1,029 Posts
Ray, understand I am not saying that the estimate on a restoration could be a closed bid, goodness no. But needing two quarters, any fool could look at the car and know that. Look inside the trunk, up over the wheel wells inside the trunk down at the bottom of the quarters in the trunk those are the first places to rust, you could see anything from inside unless someone has done one hell of a shame job, it's all visible. After that, sure EVERY restoration is an OPEN BID with that VERY clear with the customer, at least at a real professional shop. A general "max" estimate should also be VERY clear with the customer.

I don't know about Nevada but here in California the shop that cut off the quarters when it wasn't on the signed work order would be required to replace them for free!

And folks, this may be tv and we know it's a joke and we have to assume she is getting it for free and all that, but there ARE shops out there that do stuff like this! I have seen it, MANY times. One I was involved in an investigation had about four lines on a work order that was over $10,000! 80% of what was done wasn't on the RO! The shop was closed by the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) and they re-opened under the wife's name! He is obviously a sleezeball piece of garbage. And many of the people who would take a restoration without having a VERY good idea (how about pull a friggin door trim and quarter trim panel off!) of a cost before jumping into it so the customer has no choice....they are a SLEEZEBALL THIEF!

Maybe these shows do the shops who do good honest work a favor, maybe the make customers more cautious? Just maybe they do good by warning people how some shops can be? I don't know but they certainly aren't very good TV that's for sure.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:42 PM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Brian I agree with everything you said...except that "Maybe these shows do the shops who do good honest work a favor, maybe the make customers more cautious? Just maybe they do good by warning people how some shops can be?"

They aren't helping the trade in any way shape or form. If anything they are hurting the industry...even as this episode was described...they quote $7K and do it for 1/2 the price? Every Tom Dick and Harry that needs rear quarters that watched that episode won't remember the $7 K, they will remember the 50% discount. I don't care if $3,500.00 is high, low or whatever. I've seen episodes where they do a full restoration for some buddy of their's on an old truck, complete with new 383 Stroker, paint and interior for $10K. Possible, not in the real world...and what do the masses think when they watch that? Maybe they think that is the going rate and then go to a real restoration or custom shop and call the owner a crock for wanting $45K or $50K for the job...when in reality, that's what it costs.

No...IMO those show hurt more than help and I'm saying that from experience.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 02:17 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,201
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,336
Thanked 1,167 Times in 1,029 Posts
You are probably right Ray.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2013, 05:39 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,727
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 207 Times in 166 Posts
vegas baby ! shows like this dont hurt the industry near as much as the backyard shops that charge half the going rate just to get business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2013, 06:18 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shine View Post
vegas baby ! shows like this dont hurt the industry near as much as the backyard shops that charge half the going rate just to get business.
I don't know if I totally agree with that statement Shine. At least the "Back Yard" shops that lower their rates usually don't stay in business long...if they don't learn to charge properly for good work (and there are some "back Yard" guys that do decent work) they are gone.... broke. The problem is, they are replaced just as fast by the next guy doing it...it's a problem that is there and it won't go away anytime soon.

To me it's when a shop that isn't supposedly a "Back Yard" shop, with over head (like the shop on the show Count's Customs) charges "Back Yard" prices...yeah, it hurts the industry. I've had people that watch these shows come to me for a price and want to know how long it will take, I give it to them and they go ballistic...I've been called a crock, a con artist when all I want is a fair price for what they want done and then I find out that all the information they got was from watching TV shows where they build a car in 48 or 72 hours or they see some 1/2 hour DIY show where they make it look so easy and even say, "you can do this in your driveway with a few of your buddies on a Saturday afternoon". Like take the front end off a new Camaro and install a turbo charger...on a Saturday afternoon "with a few buddies"...sure a professional Tech that knows the front end of the car who's installed a turbo charger before, knows exactly where all the fittings go and how to hook it up....they can do it in "a few hours with a couple of other technicians". The average guy wouldn't know where to begin...even after watching one of these shows but, if they take it to a shop, they don't understand why the shop needs to charge what they charge...they take "a Saturday afternoon" as about 4 hours...when you quote more, your the con artist and the crock. People don't realize that this is more for entertainment purposes than for reality and that's how it hurts the industry.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2013, 07:18 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,727
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 207 Times in 166 Posts
i learned over the years that any customer that complained in the beginning will be a huge pia when done. i'll pass. i've spent 35 years building a customer base so i stay booked a year or so ahead and dont do any collision work or repaints. but in the early years it was always a pain to compete with guys who had no overhead nor did they pay the taxes a shop paid . thankfully they are not involved with me any more .
as for the shows they are just for entertainment . danny is a good business man. he has several profitable businesses going besides the shop. we have to remember shop rates out west are a lot higher. i have a friend out there and they charges 130 hr.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2013, 09:36 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Well now we are agreeing again...shop rates in the west are higher..in Canada and the US.

I don't do and haven't done collision work in years, pay my taxes and yes, the guy that complains in the beginning is going to complain in the end.

Danny must be a good a good business man...he does have a TV show and this isn't his first one. I just don't like the message he's sending.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodders' Lounge posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The count down begins.......... OldSchoolChevy Hotrodders' Lounge 18 05-19-2006 04:43 PM
Post count Bucko Hotrodders Site Suggestions and Help 2 10-19-2005 06:39 PM
post count woodz428 Hotrodders Site Suggestions and Help 7 09-19-2003 01:56 AM
Count the bolts??? Mrfixmaster Transmission - Rearend 5 12-11-2002 04:00 PM
Post count 78 monte Hotrodders' Lounge 7 11-18-2002 09:10 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.