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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:36 PM
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i had the cap removed, and then turned off the engine. Also a note to add is the coolant is surging at a rate that makes it impossible to fill while running. At the rate it is surging it would push all of the fluid out of the system if i allowed it to.

yes, this seems to have developed after the thermostat change.

I can't find any sign of intake leaking into the valley, or any coolant leak at that. Would synthetic oil make it more difficult to see coolant in oil?

I have a spare 185 thermostat, I'll change that out and see what happens

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Old 02-18-2013, 04:03 AM
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Run it with the t-stat removed. If it is still having the same issue of overheating and pushing coolant, then start checking plugs and leak down rate.

There is another reason for running it with the T-stat removed. When it is removed and you run the engine with the radiator cap off, you should see the coolant flowing smoothly in your radiator (hopefully you can with your truck as I'm not sure where the pressure cap is in that system.) If the coolant is NOT flowing smoothly, then you have an issue with blockage or water pump. If the coolant flow smoothly but bubbles begin to develop and continue to get worse as the engine warms, then head or headgasket is most likely the cause.

"i had the cap removed, and then turned off the engine. Also a note to add is the coolant is surging at a rate that makes it impossible to fill while running. At the rate it is surging it would push all of the fluid out of the system if i allowed it to. "

You are describing a cooling system blockage to me, a plugged radiator or a thermostat installed upside down or one that is will not open completely. That also happpens when the coolant is extremely hot. Does the surging issue you have when trying to add coolant occur when you 1st start it or when trying to add coolant with it running and engine hot?

Did you install a new water pump or radiator when you put the motor in? And what happenned to the original motor?
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:08 PM
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the surging and most of the bubbles happen once i get up to operating temperature 210. I can see the coolant is flowing well, at least it appears to flow well. here is a video at idle while the thermostat is closed. You can also hear my surging idle in the video.
[IMG][/IMG]
I'll upload a video with the thermostat open and engine up to temperature once it finishes uploading to photobucket.

I checked the plugs and they still look ok i think. [IMG][/IMG]

I noticed the back of my intake gasket is leaking oil where it connects to the block. But before I fix that, I'm going to check the thermostat and run it with the thermostat off like you suggested 64nailhead.
If i continue to have bubbles I'll take it to the dealership and inform them off a possible bad head gasket. If i don't I'll fix the intake gasket. It also appears that one of my injectors is leaking, I'll go ahead and rebuild the injector and see if that fixes my bad idle. And as for the old engine, it was just worn out, the heads needed rebuilt, engine had 200,000 so was in need of a rebuild anyways, and didn't want to mix new heads with an old block and the new engine was a cheaper route. Radiator is the old one, I'm not sure if it's the original radiator or not, I am the second owner of this truck and didn't get much information from the owner that had it in Utah a good portion of the trucks life. which was about 160,000 liles
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:10 PM
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And the water pump is about two years old
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:29 PM
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I believe that red tint is just because i put HEAT in the gas a while back ago. Or possibly from running on 91 octane for about 4 tanks
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:44 PM
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Another note to add, is did a test on the fluid gas and it turned up no signs of exhaust gasses in the coolant. I don't know if there is a way to test the fluid itself for contamination. But my block tester showed no signs of leaking exhaust gasses.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:49 PM
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Here's the video with the thermostat open and at operating temperature, just click on it like the last one.
[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:50 PM
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When you do pull the thermostat and have another new one on hand, you can heat up some water on the stove and while its on the stove hang both stats into the water by some wire and compare their action and how far they open as that usually tells the story if one is bad and doesn't open near as far for the same heat being applied. Just make sure you keep track of which is the new one and which was the old one !.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:08 AM
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IMHO - that video doesn't indicate a bad head or head gasket. Again, IMO the bubbles would be much more severe and consistent or a big bubble that is cyclical following rpm's.

Did you ever get a vacuum reading at idle and say 1500 rpm's? Take a look at the attachment. It is some great info on diagnosing engine issues based on vacuum readings - thanks to wiki editors!


http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...gine_diagnosis

That surge sounds like a vacuum leak, bad IAC or bad EGR valve.

Now, guardedly, I'm going to give you some advice that is basic, at least to me. You put a new engine in this truck and reused the old (2 yr old) water pump? It is like reusing the old spark plugs as far as I'm concerned. Basically, new engine means new plugs, rotor, cap, water pump, t-stat, etc. AGAIN, IMHO!

I noticed alot of RTV around the t-stat housing. I'm not a big fan of smearing RTV around the t-stat housing. I prefer HiTack or similar because the gasket should do the sealing and excessive RTV can cause nothing but issues. It is the RTV that you can't see on the inside of the housing that can cause issues. Probably someone will chime in and disagree with me on that though.


New water pump - less than $50, get the t-stat out and see if the problem goes away by driving it back and forth to work. If it is 15-25 degrees outside, then it shouldn't blow good heat with the t-stat removed under normal driving/cruising speeds - dress warm. And CHECK THE VACUUM!

p.s. A vacuum gauge is a cheap tool that can be used on every gas engine to diagnose problems. It doesn't matter if you're working on a 64 Nailhead, 89 SBC or a 2010 LS engine - the vacuum gauge doesn't lie.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Last edited by 64nailhead; 02-20-2013 at 04:11 AM. Reason: My spelling and grammer are good, my typing sucks.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:53 AM
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Unfortunately due to dial up I only saw the first few seconds of the coolant beginning to flow out of the rad but was reading over 64nailheads thoughts and nodding my head repeatedly. The water pump, general tune up parts and so forth should all be new with a new engine installation as it would be like buying a new truck off the lot and it had a number of half worn out parts put on it, take a guess how well that would work out down the road a ways in miles and years. Its bad enough with the accessories that tend to get swapped over such as a well worn starter, alternator, TBI assembly { which you are having problems with } as by rights all those items should be new as well, distributor and on and on. Unfortunately an engine install that covers all those externals as new is FAR more expensive then the initial cost of the basic long block drop in. It might sound like I am coming down on on you hard but that isn't the intention of my comments in the least, its just pointing out that doing a new engine install and covering all basis isn't inexpensive.

Hi tack, that product is wonderful for those times it fits the situation as it leaves a nice THIN layer of sealant on the surface and will add, its very advisable to wear those throw away thin gloves when working with it. While I use RTV or other types of silicone, the diff cover for example and so forth that doesn't use a gasket, the key is to use a thin layer of it so in the case of water pump or thermostat housing gaskets, LESS is more as they say. Just a thin thin layer if the product even if it allows for that as its hard to get some of these silicones spread thin enough.

Many years ago a friend of mine who used to work as a mechanic at a ford dealership, he commented about another mechanic in that shop who was famous for using FAR too much silicone and they had an engine come back that was having issues to say the least and pulled off the valve cover this mechanic had sealed on with silicone. Most of the silicone had broken off from the inside edge and had plugged up a lot of the oil passages back down into the crank case and I would imagine what did find its way into the oil pan would soon stick to the oil intake screen. Thats a perfect example of what can happen by way over use of sealants.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2013, 05:46 PM
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yeah i didn't care much for my method with the silicone, i hate the way it looks. I'll try your method next time

I'm working on getting a new distributor also, my old one was out of my truck for about a month and i went to put it on and realized it was seized up. So i took it apart and cleaned it up, and cross hatched the shaft to help hold the oil i put on it. soon enough i'll have a complete 6 AL MSD ignition system set up.

So i stopped by the radiator shop today to have them check it out and see what they thought, and something i completely overlooked. My fan clutch is bad, that's why i was over heating on my way to work at the slow speeds. And apparently the bubbles are normal because my return line for my heater core enters right at the cap. And that causes bubbles to escape at the mouth of the radiator. I'll replace the clutch today and see what happens thanks guys Now just to figure out the surging idle, I'll do a vacuum check as soon as possible and get the information to you. That chart for vacuum looks like it will be very helpful 64nailhead, i didn't realize you could tell so much about vacuum
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:16 PM
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Take note of the editor of that wiki article, Cobalt, you can thank him. Also there is a ton of great info there. It's worth checking out whenever you have questions about something your working on that you're not sure of.

I'm really glad to here that you found the problem. Remember, always start with basics so as to eliminate the little things first.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:50 PM
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How did he determine the fan clutch was bad or should say the viscous clutch as it only locks up when the engine would be quite hot and if everything is working properly and since its winter, the clutch would never have reason to kick in. I am guessing he meant the viscous assembly was weak as they will fail or leak out and then just about free wheel from what I have been told. I've found with those clutches or at least for my 95 chevy, the factory one never did lock up so I thought it was a dud and bought an aftermarket one and it took a lot of temperature for it to lock up { covering the grill in the summer time to experiment with this } . I don't like to see the temperature start climbing much over that 100c / 212f mark as I know the thermostat is probably all the way open by then and the temps can just sky rocket without warning after that. I'm not saying you should do this to your brand new clutch but just for future reference if you ever needed to do this. I re bent the outer tip of the bi metal spring a little to get the clutch cutting in earlier although not at too low a temperature as that would be very bad for over cooling and use a lot of gas to drive it. It worked well though when I did that modification and installed the largest rad I could find to fit the truck before heading through Death Valley in the middle of summer although I still kept the conditioning off... and its a black truck !.

I would suspect a leaking fuel injector isn't going to help the way the engine idles and probably should get that repaired or replaced before chasing everything else down for the surging idle situation.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:55 AM
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Well, I drove to work this morning and it started to get a little warmer than what I would like, so I'll tear into the thermostat again and make sure I don't have any rtv on it, causing any blockage. Then its back to the drawing bored again if that's not the problem....

It just didn't have any resistance, once it was warmed up, I turned it off and the fan just continued to spin freely.

I'll check the vaccum when I di the t-stat, where do you suggest I hook up the vacuum gauge? I have one available vacuum port on the far right of the tbi.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:09 AM
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I won't claim to say this is the best location to hook up a vacuum gauge but definitely gives a proper reading at idle assuming the EGR being disconnected causing a problem. The other way is to have a T connector so you can keep the EGR line hooked up. The fitting is at the front of the TBI right next to the large PCV line.

Up here they suggest a 195 thermostat but a slightly cooler one might be better for your location but with whatever you decide on, T stats don't cost a lot and I'd say its easier to just put in another one while your doing through the motions of draining coolant out anyway.

You had a new fan clutch mounted up for your drive in this morning ?
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