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Old 06-08-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by price
I am a Boilermaker (retired) and anyone who blames this outsourcing on unions is a dupe of the rich. The fact is the non union sector started buying imported crap tools like clesent wlenches and vice glips before the guys we worked for ever did. We used to refuse to use non union tools and we were safer for it. Non union contractors drove down wages and the the poorer paid workers have no choice but to shop non union at Wally mart. Go union!

Price:Im retired too! Your right on!! I received my training through the machinists and aerospace workers union. after coming home from the Marines I was already 20 I joined right out of high school had to have 3years collage during a 4year apprenticeship to get my first journeyman's card Gas engines, 2 more years to get my 2nd in diesel, 1 year to get my 3rd welder and 1 more to get my electrical, and then my pipe fitters card. The unions made sure you were well trained . and for this training you were well paid. I traveled the world working for many unions on permit where ever I was needed. Iron workers ,riggers ,boiler makers uaw ,steel workers etc etc. you couldn't walk through a plant gate and touch a tool without a card!! that was the credentials company's recognized that you were well trained but the French, Germans, swiss, even the Japanese were younger and better trained Because in this country we dont hit the work force till after high school and arn't well trained till your 20s, But in Europe training starts in school in your early teens and by the time they hit the work force after graduating they were already well trained!!!!

The reason I ran this speel is because people arnt trained well any more and the more the skilled trade unions are shrunk the less trained people become. Its like some companies want American workers dumbed down. I go to a plant to repair a press and Ill be milling some bronze jibs and the company's machinist forman tells the company they can be made out of brass to save money well you can make em out of brass but they wont hold< brass is soft and slick, bronze is hard and will hold with friction. brass as a jib is like using toilet paper for brake linings! The jibs are a brake to hold a press in position while cleaning ,repairing, or maintaining on large presses you can set the jibs and walk inside the press if the jibs slip youll be crushed. well I refused to use brass I called my union and left. the company made em out of brass and they worked for a while till the press took a mans arm off! One company was using 80# gate valves for 10,000 # hydrolic valves, a company ( morbark) was using seamed water pipe and elbows for hydrolic piping on their high pressure machines and wondered why they had so many leaks. came to find out the mill write couldn't read and had no training he was the owners relative! at Strohs brewery they refrigerated with ammonia it was like a museum. Well some men were in a tunnel working and there was an ammonia leak and when they ran to the gas mask cabinets they were locked, some lead man locked em so they wouldn't get stolen! I went to a large machine plant and the chains they had were well beyond the fatigue point when I Asked for new chains they wanted to know why? so I measured the links to show them they were dangerous They never heard of that!!! Ive seen untrained men using chokers so frayed they shouldnt be able to pick up a fig nueton and their picking up 30 ton machines. I have so many examples of pure negligence I could go on forever. Like the 17 year old co-op worker after school that was taught to grease machines but they never told him they had to be locked out and during his first 20 minutes working lost 4 fingers!! We sniffed out a tank that needed to be welded and told the company it needed to be evacuated (Cleared of explosive gas) there was about a 2 inch layer on the bottom of the tank and we wouldnt strike a bead till it was done, so the company called in a scab welding outfit and they blew themselves up! We were welding shell plate on vertical lime kilns well the union crew tied their welding cables & torch hoses to the bosens cages but the in scab crew a couple of guys wrapped them over their shoulders well they were fine going down 50 or 60 feet but going back up the weight of the welding cables hanging under the baskets pulled one guy out and he fell to his death the other was almost chocked to death because somehow the cables wrapped around his neck That was at B.A.S.F.

But I think company's with poorly trained people and no union the workers will do anything a company tells em and company's like that!! Ive worked at non union shops with well trained people, good pay , treated very well by their employers and there was no need for a union but they were very few!!! None union shops that call us in pay us triple or much more what they pay their own employees for doing the same work plus travel time and vacation those guys hated us when they should have hated their bosses for not paying them more Because if the company's paying us that good they know their workers are worth paying more!!!! the other reason is they cant leave because their not trained well enough to last the probation period!!

Either the company lets em go or some of the iron workers drop things like heavy hammers on em from above till they quit I worked on some Canadian crews that did just that