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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2012, 09:41 AM
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:14 AM
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For many reasons we are making labor too expensive in this country. Yes we have created a generation of kids who don't want to do "labor" but simply hiring a person to do anything is becoming too expensive; for a 100 reasons.

My wife hobbies with ceramics. She has her own pouring table, mold supplies etc. She does it for herself for fun. Over the last 10 years we have seen some of the largest ceramic shows shrink to a 1/4 of the size they were 10 years ago. Molds, kilns and ceramic supplies are so cheap because shops have been closing nation wide over the last 20 years.

Why? Because ceramics is a labor intensive industry. It is becoming too expensive to hire people and the work ethic of people is not what it used to be.

As our people expect more big screen TV's, ntendos, internet phones, ipods, and air conditioned environments, jobs which support these lifestyles are shrinking. As bail outs of all sorts try to keep this propped up we are setting our self up to become the next 3rd world country.

We are on a self destructive path in this country and I don't see anything stopping it.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:37 PM
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Totally correct 'Gear....

And that's what the Japanese decided to do to us after we "whupped" them. They set about to beat us in our pocket books, and dang near did it. The Chinese were watching and decided, "hell, we can do a better job than the Japanese".... the rest is history.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:17 PM
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gow589
For many reasons we are making labor too expensive in this country. Yes we have created a generation of kids who don't want to do "labor" but simply hiring a person to do anything is becoming too expensive; for a 100 reasons.

My wife hobbies with ceramics. She has her own pouring table, mold supplies etc. She does it for herself for fun. Over the last 10 years we have seen some of the largest ceramic shows shrink to a 1/4 of the size they were 10 years ago. Molds, kilns and ceramic supplies are so cheap because shops have been closing nation wide over the last 20 years.

Why? Because ceramics is a labor intensive industry. It is becoming too expensive to hire people and the work ethic of people is not what it used to be.

As our people expect more big screen TV's, ntendos, internet phones, ipods, and air conditioned environments, jobs which support these lifestyles are shrinking. As bail outs of all sorts try to keep this propped up we are setting our self up to become the next 3rd world country.

We are on a self destructive path in this country and I don't see anything stopping it.

I agree 100% Oh, and I see that the forum moderators deleted my other comments I made about Made in China items. Wonder why.

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Old 06-08-2012, 07:15 AM
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Corporate greed led to this mess we have here, we're even importing lime stone from china how can they mine crush & ship it for less then mining it here??? an American company thats based here but gets material from 3rd world countrys pays no terifs and still gets huge tax breaks or no taxes at all!! China, Mexico etc etc, has no child labor laws, no retirements,no health laws, no comp insurance, no e.p.a. 16 hr 7 day work weeks, in china they live and sleep at the factory's in little rectangular boxes, they shop at factory stores, dump the factory poisons any place , I was flown there about 8 years ago to repair some American made machinery that we (Americans) shipped there and we installed. and I saw this first hand, young children couldn't have been over 10 working an assembly line before going to school at the same factory. Husbands and wives working 16 hrs a day for less then 30 dollars a week (American curancy equivalent)!!! I went to mexico to help set up a ford casting plant just on the other side of the border and the wast chemicles were dumped on the ground right behind the plant and ran in a ditch through poor peoples yards. Children were sick and dieing people had open soars , disentary, we couldnt drink the water, and had bottled water supplied to us, but the people there drank that nasty stink water!! How can our manufacturers compete with that.

The president cant create manufacturing jobs, corporations do , Your stores here like Wallmart quit buying American goods, and quit even stocking them because there are bigger profits in this imported crap from India, Korea, Mexico Etc, and if Americans dont stand up and ask for quality U.S. products and start buying Made in U.S.A. This country will go to pot ! now auto part stores are starting to refuse to sell me mooge made in USA parts and only deal with one warehouse and try to sell me falcon parts made in china that are pure crap products. Napa with all their imported crap, car guest, auto zone, ETC, push this crap!!!! You can buy some cheep rotors for less then having one turned!!! If you go in a store and they dont have USA products how can you buy Them!!!! I dont think we have one brand of tire made here? Every one who wants an engine built by me wants eagle cranks (cheep) I think if I remember right their made in china I may be wrong on what I was told (so Ill apologize now)!! Ive been getting spark plugs with buggerd up threads or no threads at all from many of the name brands.

I wish someone in Washington would give a speech telling people to ask for and buy USA products or not shop at that store! Preferably by a president!

Chris
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by painted jester
Corporate greed led to this mess we have here, we're even importing lime stone from china how can they mine crush & ship it for less then mining it here??? an American company thats based here but gets material from 3rd world countrys pays no terifs and still gets huge tax breaks or no taxes at all!! China, Mexico etc etc, has no child labor laws, no retirements,no health laws, no comp insurance, no e.p.a. 16 hr 7 day work weeks, in china they live and sleep at the factory's in little rectangular boxes, they shop at factory stores, dump the factory poisons any place , I was flown there about 8 years ago to repair some American made machinery that we (Americans) shipped there and we installed. and I saw this first hand, young children couldn't have been over 10 working an assembly line before going to school at the same factory. Husbands and wives working 16 hrs a day for less then 30 dollars a week (American curancy equivalent)!!! I went to mexico to help set up a ford casting plant just on the other side of the border and the wast chemicles were dumped on the ground right behind the plant and ran in a ditch through poor peoples yards. Children were sick and dieing people had open soars , disentary, we couldnt drink the water, and had bottled water supplied to us, but the people there drank that nasty stink water!! How can our manufacturers compete with that.

The president cant create manufacturing jobs, corporations do , Your stores here like Wallmart quit buying American goods, and quit even stocking them because there are bigger profits in this imported crap from India, Korea, Mexico Etc, and if Americans dont stand up and ask for quality U.S. products and start buying Made in U.S.A. This country will go to pot ! now auto part stores are starting to refuse to sell me mooge made in USA parts and only deal with one warehouse and try to sell me falcon parts made in china that are pure crap products. Napa with all their imported crap, car guest, auto zone, ETC, push this crap!!!! You can buy some cheep rotors for less then having one turned!!! If you go in a store and they dont have USA products how can you buy Them!!!! I dont think we have one brand of tire made here? Every one who wants an engine built by me wants eagle cranks (cheep) I think if I remember right their made in china I may be wrong on what I was told (so Ill apologize now)!! Ive been getting spark plugs with buggerd up threads or no threads at all from many of the name brands.

I wish someone in Washington would give a speech telling people to ask for and buy USA products or not shop at that store! Preferably by a president!

Chris


Do you remember the "MADE IN USA" campaign Walmart used to have? Do you remember what stopped it? When Hillary Clinton came on to the board of directors at Walmart she put a stop to the "Made In America" campaign.

The people Hillary and Walmart did business with in China were large donors to Hillary's campaign. What was the first thing Hillary did as Secretary of State? She went to China and said (there are U-tube videos of this) "We are resetting relations...we are no longer interested in your human rights violations; we are just interested in securing loans for our bail outs!"


I don't agree with corporate greed being the problem. Getting product made elsewhere is the only way because the government has regulated and taxed our product out of profitability. What have we done over the last couple years? We doubled the size of government while industry has shriveled up like crops with no water.

Our government can not support itself on the taxes of government entities. That's like giving your children allowances and taxing them to pay for the allowance; it won't work.

There is a long list of things making corporations non competitive i the United States. Number one on the list is corporate taxes. Until we drop the corporate tax rate it is simply cheaper to buy product made elsewhere.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:29 AM
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Gow: Im independent and not with any party ! Theres a lot more to it then Hillary or Reagen or Nixon or any other ya who that bends to corperate Lobbyists or political folly's. I worked for many co.s over the years that the people who ran them were patriotic and cared about the workers. And even they could make bigger profits by importing but still stayed true to their roots and still made good profit!! You talk like someone passed a law saying you had to deal with these other country's for your materials and manufacturing!! I feel it was a company's choice to that!

In French Indo China we went to the aid of the french and we fought Red Chinese regulars crossing the border through Vietnam it was called a police action! A few years later France gave up their holdings and French Indo china was called South Vietnam and above the border it became north Vietnam and the U.S. stayed, and the Red Chinese And the north Vietnam troops were renamed Viet Cong. When I was discharged I came home and found out why the changes (in my opinion). Nixon was forming a trade relationship with China. When the Vietnam war ended the trade agreements were signed! Why we couldnt be fighting red chinese and talking trade could we?

Now to me it started with Nixon, and thats about as outlandish as you blaming Hillory for wallmart!!!

Painted jester
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by price
I am a Boilermaker (retired) and anyone who blames this outsourcing on unions is a dupe of the rich. The fact is the non union sector started buying imported crap tools like clesent wlenches and vice glips before the guys we worked for ever did. We used to refuse to use non union tools and we were safer for it. Non union contractors drove down wages and the the poorer paid workers have no choice but to shop non union at Wally mart. Go union!

Price:Im retired too! Your right on!! I received my training through the machinists and aerospace workers union. after coming home from the Marines I was already 20 I joined right out of high school had to have 3years collage during a 4year apprenticeship to get my first journeyman's card Gas engines, 2 more years to get my 2nd in diesel, 1 year to get my 3rd welder and 1 more to get my electrical, and then my pipe fitters card. The unions made sure you were well trained . and for this training you were well paid. I traveled the world working for many unions on permit where ever I was needed. Iron workers ,riggers ,boiler makers uaw ,steel workers etc etc. you couldn't walk through a plant gate and touch a tool without a card!! that was the credentials company's recognized that you were well trained but the French, Germans, swiss, even the Japanese were younger and better trained Because in this country we dont hit the work force till after high school and arn't well trained till your 20s, But in Europe training starts in school in your early teens and by the time they hit the work force after graduating they were already well trained!!!!

The reason I ran this speel is because people arnt trained well any more and the more the skilled trade unions are shrunk the less trained people become. Its like some companies want American workers dumbed down. I go to a plant to repair a press and Ill be milling some bronze jibs and the company's machinist forman tells the company they can be made out of brass to save money well you can make em out of brass but they wont hold< brass is soft and slick, bronze is hard and will hold with friction. brass as a jib is like using toilet paper for brake linings! The jibs are a brake to hold a press in position while cleaning ,repairing, or maintaining on large presses you can set the jibs and walk inside the press if the jibs slip youll be crushed. well I refused to use brass I called my union and left. the company made em out of brass and they worked for a while till the press took a mans arm off! One company was using 80# gate valves for 10,000 # hydrolic valves, a company ( morbark) was using seamed water pipe and elbows for hydrolic piping on their high pressure machines and wondered why they had so many leaks. came to find out the mill write couldn't read and had no training he was the owners relative! at Strohs brewery they refrigerated with ammonia it was like a museum. Well some men were in a tunnel working and there was an ammonia leak and when they ran to the gas mask cabinets they were locked, some lead man locked em so they wouldn't get stolen! I went to a large machine plant and the chains they had were well beyond the fatigue point when I Asked for new chains they wanted to know why? so I measured the links to show them they were dangerous They never heard of that!!! Ive seen untrained men using chokers so frayed they shouldnt be able to pick up a fig nueton and their picking up 30 ton machines. I have so many examples of pure negligence I could go on forever. Like the 17 year old co-op worker after school that was taught to grease machines but they never told him they had to be locked out and during his first 20 minutes working lost 4 fingers!! We sniffed out a tank that needed to be welded and told the company it needed to be evacuated (Cleared of explosive gas) there was about a 2 inch layer on the bottom of the tank and we wouldnt strike a bead till it was done, so the company called in a scab welding outfit and they blew themselves up! We were welding shell plate on vertical lime kilns well the union crew tied their welding cables & torch hoses to the bosens cages but the in scab crew a couple of guys wrapped them over their shoulders well they were fine going down 50 or 60 feet but going back up the weight of the welding cables hanging under the baskets pulled one guy out and he fell to his death the other was almost chocked to death because somehow the cables wrapped around his neck That was at B.A.S.F.

But I think company's with poorly trained people and no union the workers will do anything a company tells em and company's like that!! Ive worked at non union shops with well trained people, good pay , treated very well by their employers and there was no need for a union but they were very few!!! None union shops that call us in pay us triple or much more what they pay their own employees for doing the same work plus travel time and vacation those guys hated us when they should have hated their bosses for not paying them more Because if the company's paying us that good they know their workers are worth paying more!!!! the other reason is they cant leave because their not trained well enough to last the probation period!!

Either the company lets em go or some of the iron workers drop things like heavy hammers on em from above till they quit I worked on some Canadian crews that did just that

Chris
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:42 AM
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Can't believe my post got deleted.... Why?? Because I used the word, "naive"??? It was not out of line, nor was it written in an offensive manner.

Are we now to the point that we are so politically correct that we can't even post a differing opinion?

I will say it again, to think that companies have moved their labor out of the US primarily due to work ethic would be "naive". The primary reason for these moves come down to profit and greed.

They can pay an employee $10 an hour or $10 a day, which would you choose. Unfortunately for the consumer, the latter, also produces the quality to match the labor costs.

The bottom dollar drives these AMERICAN companies to China, nothing else.....
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Steel
Can't believe my post got deleted.... Why?? Because I used the word, "naive"??? It was not out of line, nor was it written in an offensive manner.

Are we now to the point that we are so politically correct that we can't even post a differing opinion?

I will say it again, to think that companies have moved their labor out of the US primarily due to work ethic would be "naive". The primary reason for these moves come down to profit and greed.

They can pay an employee $10 an hour or $10 a day, which would you choose. Unfortunately for the consumer, the latter, also produces the quality to match the labor costs.

The bottom dollar drives these AMERICAN companies to China, nothing else.....
Try to hire someone for 10 bucks an hour. They laugh at you. The biggest issue is entitlement. Why work for minimum wage when the government will pay you just as much to stay home. I live in one of the worst states for this. The abuse is staggering.

When you look at the big picture it is amazing that someone can run a plant in China, ship stuff here from China and still do it cheaper than if they manufactured it here.
It not just China either, Mexico is a huge problem as well.
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by T-bucket23
Try to hire someone for 10 bucks an hour. They laugh at you. The biggest issue is entitlement. Why work for minimum wage when the government will pay you just as much to stay home. I live in one of the worst states for this. The abuse is staggering.

When you look at the big picture it is amazing that someone can run a plant in China, ship stuff here from China and still do it cheaper than if they manufactured it here.
It not just China either, Mexico is a huge problem as well.
I agree, our system is in need of a serious makeover. What was once was a helping hand has since turned into a life style. I feel the biggest problem is that it is a trending issue that is going to bankrupt our country, however, I digress.

I will say that I know a lot of people that are working for $10 an hour and happy to have the job.......
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:21 AM
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Well.................

No offense, Jester, but.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEOXPy7xKJI
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:53 AM
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No offense, Jester, but.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEOXPy7xKJI
Excellent video!
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by painted jester
Gow: Im independent and not with any party ! Theres a lot more to it then Hillary or Reagen or Nixon or any other ya who that bends to corperate Lobbyists or political folly's. I worked for many co.s over the years that the people who ran them were patriotic and cared about the workers. And even they could make bigger profits by importing but still stayed true to their roots and still made good profit!! You talk like someone passed a law saying you had to deal with these other country's for your materials and manufacturing!! I feel it was a company's choice to that!

In French Indo China we went to the aid of the french and we fought Red Chinese regulars crossing the border through Vietnam it was called a police action! A few years later France gave up their holdings and French Indo china was called South Vietnam and above the border it became north Vietnam and the U.S. stayed, and the Red Chinese And the north Vietnam troops were renamed Viet Cong. When I was discharged I came home and found out why the changes (in my opinion). Nixon was forming a trade relationship with China. When the Vietnam war ended the trade agreements were signed! Why we couldnt be fighting red chinese and talking trade could we?

Now to me it started with Nixon, and thats about as outlandish as you blaming Hillory for wallmart!!!



Painted jester
How true,how true. By the way, WELCOME HOME VET!!!

Tom
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U.S. Air Force 1965-1969
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