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Old 05-31-2013, 10:06 AM
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critique my build.

Was wanting yall to review my build before I order the parts. Base motor is a 355 .030 over with sealed power +5.00 cc pistons. Stock rods and crank. The parts I'm looking to order asap are .

Edelbrock performer rpm heads P/N 60899. 64cc chambers and 185 cc runners.
Gm head gaskets P/N 14096405
Scat powerforce 8000 balencer P/N SCA-D-80010. This is a 6 inch unit.
Ati timming pointer P/N ati-918954
Arp head bolts P/N 134-3601

I've already got a new cam its a summit unit that's 218/218 @50 475/475 lift with a 106 lsa. Compression will be at 10:1 with this set up and I have a goal 400 hp. Let me know what yall think about it.

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Old 05-31-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammedsi View Post
Was wanting yall to review my build before I order the parts. Base motor is a 355 .030 over with sealed power +5.00 cc pistons. Stock rods and crank. The parts I'm looking to order asap are .

Edelbrock performer rpm heads P/N 60899. 64cc chambers and 185 cc runners.
Gm head gaskets P/N 14096405
Scat powerforce 8000 balencer P/N SCA-D-80010. This is a 6 inch unit.
Ati timming pointer P/N ati-918954
Arp head bolts P/N 134-3601

I've already got a new cam its a summit unit that's 218/218 @50 475/475 lift with a 106 lsa. Compression will be at 10:1 with this set up and I have a goal 400 hp. Let me know what yall think about it.
Overall I think this is pretty good. The compression ratio is going to be pretty aggressive with that 218º cam, but you should be able to get away with it due to the AL heads. The 185cc intake runners are probably a little on the high side, but should be OK.

I think you should ditch that Chinese made harmonic damper. It is not SFI approved, it is only a 6" unit, and it is lightweight. IMHO you want a heavy and large diameter damper. It is tough to find a good 8" damper these days (at least aftermarket and in normal price range). Don't skimp the damper, it is very important. If you want to make 400HP you are going to have to spin it and you don't want the damper to come unglued. David Vizard had a dyno test where an 8" damper made more HP than a 6".

I also think a 218º cam is going to take a lot of work to reach 400HP. You could get closer to that with solid lifters, but not with hydraulic lifters. You are probably in the 330-350HP range when all is said and done with hydraulic lifters. You can ask Tech to run the setup on his dyno software to get an idea. I found his numbers are higher than the ones I get with Desktop Dyno 2003.

Are you going to use roller rockers? Headers? Glass packs?

Last edited by Silver Surfer; 05-31-2013 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
Overall I think this is pretty good. The compression ratio is going to be pretty aggressive with that 218º cam, but you should be able to get away with it due to the AL heads. The 185cc intake runners are probably a little on the high side, but should be OK.

I think you should ditch that Chinese made harmonic damper. It is not SFI approved, it is only a 6" unit, and it is lightweight. IMHO you want a heavy and large diameter damper. It is tough to find a good 8" damper these days (at least aftermarket and in normal price range). Don't skimp the damper, it is very important. If you want to make 400HP you are going to have to spin it and you don't want the damper to come unglued. David Vizard had a dyno test where an 8" damper made more HP than a 6".

I also think a 218º cam is going to take a lot of work to reach 400HP. You could get closer to that with solid lifters, but not with hydraulic lifters. You are probably in the 330-350HP range when all is said and done with hydraulic lifters. You can ask Tech to run the setup on his dyno software to get an idea. I found his numbers are higher than the ones I get with Desktop Dyno 2003.

Are you going to use roller rockers? Headers? Glass packs?
Yes roller rockers, but not sure on what ratio to go with. I'm running a set of hooker headers with flowmaster 40's. Its a true duel 3 inch syatem from the header back to the rear axle. I wasn't to sure on the damper. I was thinking a smaller lighter unit would help throttle responce and rev better. Can you recomend a unit to use insted of the one I picked. Possibly a part number too?

I had tech run it for me and he came up with a 420hp and 450tq.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:35 PM
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I was also needing to know about pushrods. Can I use the stock lenght pushrods but run a set of hardoned ones because of the guide plates?
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:12 PM
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Call up the guys at Damper Doctor and see if you can buy an 8" unit from them. They take original OEM GM dampers, separate them, replace the elastomeric material, clock the inertia ring to the hub properly and force the unit back together under hydraulic pressure.
Here's their home page....
Damper Doctor Online - Your source for Harmonic Balancers, Motor Mounts, & Drive Shaft Supports
And phone number.....
Damper Doctor Online: Contact Us
I've been recommending them for decades.

Here's a quick tutorial from CompCams concerning pushrod length.....
I like to use the exact length and style of lifter that I'm going to run in the motor to do this test. Disassemble a juice lifter, same as you're going to use, pack it with JB Weld, replace the pushrod cup and snap ring and you have a good solid lifter for checking pushrod length. Do the jiggle up and down action to remove all play in the pushrod before checking.

Last edited by techinspector1; 05-31-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Call up the guys at Damper Doctor and see if you can buy an 8" unit from them. They take original OEM GM dampers, separate them, replace the elastomeric material, clock the inertia ring to the hub properly and force the unit back together under hydraulic pressure.
Here's their home page....
Damper Doctor Online - Your source for Harmonic Balancers, Motor Mounts, & Drive Shaft Supports
And phone number.....
Damper Doctor Online: Contact Us
I've been recommending them for decades.

Here's a quick tutorial from CompCams concerning pushrod length.....
COMP Cams® Quick Tech: Achieving Proper Rocker Arm Geometry - YouTube
I like to use the exact length and style of lifter that I'm going to run in the motor to do this test. Disassemble a juice lifter, same as you're going to use, pack it with JB Weld, replace the pushrod cup and snap ring and you have a good solid lifter for checking pushrod length. Do the jiggle up and down action to remove all play in the pushrod before checking.
Tech, Im worred about having to check the pushrod lenght. On my order i went ahead and ordered a adjustable pushrod. Hope i dont screw this up.

I was wondering about being able to use a set of 1.6 ratio rockers insted of a set of 1.5's. Do yall feel its safe to use the 1.6 rockers with the cam im using.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammedsi View Post
Tech, Im worred about having to check the pushrod lenght. On my order i went ahead and ordered a adjustable pushrod. Hope i dont screw this up.

I was wondering about being able to use a set of 1.6 ratio rockers insted of a set of 1.5's. Do yall feel its safe to use the 1.6 rockers with the cam im using.
1.6 rockers will add 10-12 hp to the package. I'd be OK with using 'em with this cam's hydraulic intensity of 56. Don't like using 'em on a fast ramp such as the CompCams Extreme grinds or the Lunati Voodoo grinds.

Something else that will help is using full roller rockers. I'm not talking about those cheezy Comp rockers that use a sliding ball fulcrum and a roller tip. I'm talking about a full roller fulcrum and roller tip rocker, like Scorpion, Harland Sharp, etc. The roller fulcrum is said to free up somewhere around 20 hp and also will reduce the engine oil temp due to reduced friction at the fulcrum.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:28 PM
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1.6 rockers will add 10-12 hp to the package. I'd be OK with using 'em with this cam's hydraulic intensity of 56. Don't like using 'em on a fast ramp such as the CompCams Extreme grinds or the Lunati Voodoo grinds.

Something else that will help is using full roller rockers. I'm not talking about those cheezy Comp rockers that use a sliding ball fulcrum and a roller tip. I'm talking about a full roller fulcrum and roller tip rocker, like Scorpion, Harland Sharp, etc. The roller fulcrum is said to free up somewhere around 20 hp and also will reduce the engine oil temp due to reduced friction at the fulcrum.
Tech, I have a brand new set of Comp Rollers P/N 1700-16. They claim to be a full roller. If there not, I'm not apposed to buying a new set. Maybe some Harland Sharp's.

Here is the link to the Rocker i have now.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-17002-16
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:31 PM
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Tech, I have a brand new set of Comp Rollers P/N 1700-16. They claim to be a full roller. If there not, I'm not apposed to buying a new set. Maybe some Harland Sharp's.

Here is the link to the Rocker i have now.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-17002-16
Yeah, I'd use those. Between the roller fulcrums and the increased valve lift, the motor should be knocking on the door at 435 hp.

Intake centerline angle 102 degrees
Exhaust centerline angle 110 degrees
Lobe centerline angle (LSA) 106 degrees
Intake valve opens (3) degrees BTDC
Intake valve closes (35) degrees ABDC
Exhaust valve opens (35) degrees BBDC
Exhaust valve closes (3) degrees ATDC
Intake duration 218 degrees
Exhaust duration 218 degrees
Valve overlap 6 degrees

Some of you fellows dispute the figures from my "air dyno", but it is set up assuming that the tune is 100% and the ambient is 60 degrees F @sea level. I have verified the results that I get with some hard dynos and I'm usually around 102%. It all depends on how you load the head flow and who you trust to give you REAL flow numbers.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
I also think a 218º cam is going to take a lot of work to reach 400HP. You could get closer to that with solid lifters, but not with hydraulic lifters. You are probably in the 330-350HP range when all is said and done with hydraulic lifters. You can ask Tech to run the setup on his dyno software to get an idea. I found his numbers are higher than the ones I get with Desktop Dyno 2003.
I'm gettin' a max BMEP of 194.5 lbs at the 4000 rpm torque peak, so it should be a nice, tight motor able to operate on pump gas. The OP has the squish worked out and he certainly knows how to alter the spark timing for full effect, as we have seen in an earlier thread from him.

I used a max 240 cfm intake runner flow to do the sim, 168 on the exhaust.
So, if a fellow used max cam on this build, he could conceivably generate 480 hp (twice the intake flow).
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:23 AM
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Thsnks for the help on all this guys. This should make a heck of a motor. Motor is going into a 77 C10.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:56 AM
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Tech, how much are we altering the hp rating if I stick with my 600 edelbrock 1406? If there is a good bit in loss I will spend the money on a 750 cfm carb.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:16 AM
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Following this thread and it sounds like a great build.

I have a question concerning the cam. According to Slammedsi's post the cam is
Quote:
a summit unit that's 218/218 @50 475/475 lift with a 106 lsa
. Techinspector1 states
Quote:
I'd be OK with using 'em with this cam's hydraulic intensity of 56.
. 56* added to the 218* @ .050 would give a total duration of 274*. This sounds like the specs for the Summit 1785 cam or Summit K00172 cam/lifter kits (same as the Crane 274 HO6 grind) except for the lift. The listings I see are .450" lift, not .475" lift. A .450 lift with 1.5 rockers would be a .480 lift with 1.6 rockers. Am I missing something in the Summit listings?
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:51 AM
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Following this thread and it sounds like a great build.

I have a question concerning the cam. According to Slammedsi's post the cam is . Techinspector1 states . 56* added to the 218* @ .050 would give a total duration of 274*. This sounds like the specs for the Summit 1785 cam or Summit K00172 cam/lifter kits (same as the Crane 274 HO6 grind) except for the lift. The listings I see are .450" lift, not .475" lift. A .450 lift with 1.5 rockers would be a .480 lift with 1.6 rockers. Am I missing something in the Summit listings?
Oops, I misquoted the specs. After going back to the cam card, your correct. It is a 450/450 lift cam.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:59 AM
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Following this thread and it sounds like a great build.

I have a question concerning the cam. According to Slammedsi's post the cam is . Techinspector1 states . 56* added to the 218* @ .050 would give a total duration of 274*. This sounds like the specs for the Summit 1785 cam or Summit K00172 cam/lifter kits (same as the Crane 274 HO6 grind) except for the lift. The listings I see are .450" lift, not .475" lift. A .450 lift with 1.5 rockers would be a .480 lift with 1.6 rockers. Am I missing something in the Summit listings?
Looking at the cam card. There is something I don't understand. It says that with using factory 1.5 rockers it says my total lift should be 450. But 274 x 1.5 is 411, while 1.6 comes to 438.4 lift. Am I doing my math wrong?

Last edited by Slammedsi; 06-01-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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