this is an opinionated subject, who is king of the intermidiate
supercars. the chevy chevelle LS6 454 was 450 hp beast, with its
4 bolt mains and 11:25:1 compression. 1/4 in a click more then
13 seconds. the buick stage 1 was one of the most underrated
cars of that era. it can easily keep up with the LS6. it was one
of true great sleepers. what about the old 442 W-30. it had that
monster 455 and famous fresh air induction it can give any muscle car a run for its money. the 426 HEMI, the name says
it all, it was one of the most, if not the most famous engines of
the legendary muscle car era. it was able to launch almost any
mopar into the 13 second bracket, especially when wrapped
into E-body sheetmetal. and ford was making the brutal
BOSS 429 mustang to qualify for NASCAR. it was very under-
cammed and still ran in the 13's. Pontiac started the midsize
madness with the best selling true musclecar ever, the feared
and revered GTO, a true screamer, especially with the 389
tripower, 400 HO and RAMAIR and the RAMAIR 3 and 4.
the mustang BOSS 351 was the probably the last of the
limeted production, high compression gross horsepower rated
musclecars. 0-60: 5.8 seconds; 1/4 ET: 13.8 seconds.
in your own opinion, which musclecar should be crowned
"greatest of all time"( it can be any muscle car like,old or new, you don't have to choose the cars i mentioned above, that was
just to give the reader an insight if they dont know the history
of the cars. post your opinion, thank you.)
Thanks,
Quarter mile killer.
great car todd, they are probably the greatest sports/muscle
car ever. performance: 0-60: 4.2; 1/4 ET:12.18@112 mph.
as for what i wrote, its from sheer memory that i remember
from reading different muscle car books in the past.
Hmmm...I'm afraid you forgot the hottest and roddest muscle car of them all. That Corvette Stingray, also known as the Shark. An early Stingray would own anything put in front of her. A 427 (L88), Chevy had to under rate the power for the public just because they didn't have the legal rights to share the REAL power of the early 427.
I'm a Chevy man through & through, but I used to have a neighbor with an old Boss 351 Mustang, and I've always wanted one of those. To me they were the Ford Version of the 302 Z28, except for a whole lot rarer. They were built for the same basic reason as the 302 Z28's too.
true. the L-88 engine offered 67-69 is a truely awesome engine had aluminum heads and was tokenrated at 430@5200 RPM. the true output, however is around 560hp@6500rpm.they are the most sought after vettes. only 220 or so were built in there 3 year run. there was, in 1969, a very rare option for the corvette and camaro. this option is known as RPO Z-L1, only 69 camaros and 2 corvettes were built with this option with an aluminum heads and block also token rated at 430 horsepower. both engines had a 12:5:1 compression ratio. as for the B0SS 351
i own of these and they were built only in 1971, the 302 you are
thinking of is a 69 or 70 BOSS 302, those were the only years
the BOSS 302 was built, however, you are right in the fact that
they were built to compete chevy's camaro z/28 302 for trans-am
racing.
keep roddin'
Quarter mile killer.
:thumbup:
I've always dreamed of the 69 427 ZL 1 Camaro. A while back I was reading a magazine that said Chevrolet plans to build about 600 ZL 1 crate engines with 454 cubes, fuel injection, timing computers and all ,for only $20G. I guess I'll just have to dream on....:drool:
. as for the B0SS 351
i own of these and they were built only in 1971, the 302 you are
thinking of is a 69 or 70 BOSS 302, those were the only years
the BOSS 302 was built, however, you are right in the fact that
they were built to compete chevy's camaro z/28 302 for trans-am
racing.
keep roddin'
Quarter mile killer.
I didn't reference the Boss 302 at all, It had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I also knew more than one person with Real Boss 302's, but the mystique was all about the Boss 351 in my book. If I would have thought more about it, I would have gone with the Ford 427 Cammer engine, but it wasn't really used in production. The only 302 I was talking about was the Chevy 302. The GM 302's weren't built to be reliable street motors, they were built so that GM could meet quota's. Same with the Boss 351's they were probably one of the worse street engines around. It was a true race engine put in a mustang body.
the ford 427 SOHC is an extreamely rare type of engine. some
historions say that ford factory installed 50 cammers or so into
their production cars. they dont have any documentation to
back it up though. the cammers get their names from their 6 feet
of timing chain and it puts forth a distinctive sound due to that. the BOSS 351 is actually a great street engine except for the skyhigh compression ratio. the BOSS 302 engine was the
disagreeable engine on the street. as with the BOSS 429, the BOSS 302 was a true race engine in stang. it suffered badly from low-end torque in the low rpm range. they virtually had no torque below 4300 rpm.
i dont rip apart blocks, i am not on that level yet. iam 16 where
else besides car shows can i this stuff(this site doesnt count, i've
only been here a day and a half) and most of people there dont
even know that much about their own cars! all i know is from
sheer memory, i dont have my books anymore.
I like the idea of opening the floor to hear what you think is the "King" of the muscle cars, or we could even get into what muscle cars were and still are over rated. I guess maybe it sounds like you read your bit out of a book QMK but who cares? I learned something.
As for the other replies I think its time you grow up, some of the HR.com vets being ***'s, just like the good old days of "Stoned" and the inbred albertan crew. Ahhh a walk down memory lane. The kid had a good idea and yall got stupid about it, instead of being gentlemen. By replying like this, and you know who you are, your breeding another "Pup" he's gonna come back swingin' as he should. I haven't posted for a while because there was too much gripin' so now I see the "Albertans" have been takin' care of you older guys gotta take up the slack and continue where they left off. Grow up.
My votes for the LS6 Chevelle, a close second for a 1970 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler.....Mmmmm
I agree, QMK is a keeper. He has a genuine interest in hot rod discussions, which is what the HR board is all about (IMO).
I might have been a little rough on a couple of the other newbs, but I still believe they are here to stir up $h!t.
As for the king of production cars, this list might be fairly accurate:
50 Fastest Production Cars - American Muscle
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS GEAR SOURCE
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05@116 V10 450 six-speed 3.07 MM 8/97
2 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/65
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette 12.80@113.8 350 LT5 375 six-speed 3.45 MT 4/90
4 1966 L72 Corvette 12.80@112 427 L72 425 four-speed 3.36 CD 11/65
5 1969 Roadrunner 12.91@111.8 440 Six Pack 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69
6 1997 Hurst/Firebird 12.99@103.11 350 350 automatic 3.42 MCR 4/5 97
7 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/69
8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.10@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92
9 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.55 CC 11/69
10 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 four-speed 4.10 HC 6/69
11 1997 Corvette 13.20@109.3 350 LS-1 345 six-speed 3.42 MT 5/97
12 1997 SLP Camaro SS 13.20@108.8 350 LT4 330 six-speed 3.42 MT 2/97
13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.20@107 350 350 six-speed 3.54 CD 6/91
14 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.70 HC 5/68
15 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
16 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS 13.46@106.48 350 LT-1 310 six-speed 3.42 MCR F/M 96
18 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 4.10 HR 2/69
19 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
20 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic(?) 3.36 HR 4/69
21 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91 HC 9/69
23 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
24 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
25 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 four-speed 4.56 SS 4/68
26 1995 Mustang Cobra R 13.67@102.82 351 300 five-speed 3.27 MCR A/S 95
27 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 four-speed 3.23 HC 2/64
28 1996 CorvetteGS 13.7@105.1 350 LT-4 330 six-speed 3.45 RT 2/96
29 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
30 1987 Buick GNX 13.70@102 231 Turbo V6 300 automatic 3.42 HR 4/87
31 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
32 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
33 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
34 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.36 CL 8/71
35 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
36 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
37 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 four-speed N/A HR 3/68
38 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.55 HR 5/67
39 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 351 Boss 330 four-speed 3.91 MT 1/71
40 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CD 4/66
41 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 four-speed 4.10 SS 4/69
42 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
43 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
44 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 four-speed 3.91 SS 9/69
45 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
46 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 four-speed 4.10 HR 1/62
47 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
48 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
49 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
50 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 four-speed 3.91 HR 2/70
Legend:
CC=Car Craft
CD=Car and Driver
CL=Car Life
HC=Hi Performance Cars
HR=Hot Rod
MCR=Muscle Car Review
MM=Mopar Muscle
MT=Motor Trend
SS=Super Stock
Notice that there is only 1.85 sec difference from #1 to # 50.
Hey I've been hard on newbs as well, but this kid seems to have a general interest in rodding so I couldn't put up with some members attitudes.
Oh yeah toss in a vote for any early trans-am, up to '74. And wouldn't you know it, I own one but its a '75 The right look but a factory big block with a measily 185 horsies. Yuck, needless to say its anything but stock.
bonuts
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