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Old 08-24-2011, 08:46 PM
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cummins question

i'm helping a friend fix his 2001 dodge, 5.9L cummins. it wont start. scan tool doesnt show rpm when cranking. i believe i replaced the cam sensor today, but am not sure where the crank sensor is, any clues?

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Old 08-24-2011, 09:10 PM
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01-02 cummins does not have crank sensor. Did you have to remove the injection pump to replace the cam sensor? And I know it sounds simple, but it had a clean fuel filter right? As I'm sure you know Cummins engines are pretty finicky about fuel/water seperators. Cycle the key on and off 3 times and see what code pops up after the 3rd key cycle (leaving key forward). It will be a code starting in P. Google the code to see what's up.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:25 PM
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??????

now i am confused. it shows no cranking rpms, and several people said to put in a crank sensor. i am a ford tech, so i looked at mitchell on line. it keeps sending me to fuel system problems, and of course i forgot the scanner(snap on mt2500) at home this morning. so i will check the fuel system, i do remember a code for the l.p. pump or transfer pump, but it cleared for some reason.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:28 PM
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oops

btw, i didnt remove the i-p to replace the cam sensor. did have the starter out though. it helped.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:41 PM
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Well that's where the crank sensor is, so it sounds like you replaced it for
sure! But I coulda' swore 01-02's didn't have one, just a cam sensor. Evidently I missed that one. Also VP44 trucks are notorious for the lift pump going out. If you bump the starter but don't let it crank long enough to start you should hear the pump run about 30 seconds. If not, that's an issue.

As I said check the codes by doing the key cycle as I mentioned earlier, any codes will show up on the odometer screen. And toss a fuel filter in and rule that out first. I've had them run great and then all of the sudden just quit on me. Swap filter, prime, and good to go. I have had 4 cummins trucks and always carry a spare.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:51 PM
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still ??????

the starter out only allowed me to get my arm in from underneath, and i-ding a sensor by the connector didnt work. theres a sensor in the block just ahead and above the starter thathas the same connector, but i didnt try to remove it, cause it wasnt the same. saw the one in the back side of the timing cover,and it looked the same, so i replaced it. no luck there. now more testing.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:51 PM
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If you just 'bump' the starter and leave the key on, you should hear the lift pump run for about 25 sec. It's right above the starter. It will purr.

If it doesn't run it's dead. The second gen Cummins 98.5 to 02 absolutely need a fuel pressure gage. You need 12-15 psi idling and 10-11 WOT. You can get away with a bit less but you will be on shakey ground.

Now if the lift pump fails more than likely you will have a failed injector pump...infamous VP-44. These go for about $1000. It's not a hard job to replace... about 4 hours with all the right tools. However I would replace the lift pump if it is not running and give it a try first. At the same time install a fuel pressure gage right after the fuel filter. Stick it in the ash tray for lack of better place.

The codes will be 1683 which simply tells you there are other codes. The VP-44 death note is 0216. Not 100% but very near. Borrow or rent a scanner. It only takes 5 minutes to run.

This site is a must join if you have a 2nd gen Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel.
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/
Post your problem in the "help" section. Be sure to fill out your signature. Look at some of the other guys.
Every problem ever known has been gone over here. A search will get you a list of required tools. Another will get you a step by instruction list. One guys even did a video. I also did a story and pictorial of the VP-44 R&R.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:57 PM
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That sensor is the crank position sensor. About $45. It won't start with a bad one of these. Can't remember the code. Be carefull removing it. If it breaks off in the block you will learn some new swear words. haha If the inside end is chewed up you may have a loose "tone ring" This is a toothed sprocket that triggers the CPS bolted to the crankshaft. If it is loose you will become and expert "cusser."
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:07 PM
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???

So the sensor above the starter, wich looks as if it actually threads into the engine block, is the crank sensor, correct? If it is, what do i use to remove it? starting to wonder if i really like mopars anymore!
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:36 PM
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Dont blame mopar! Cummins is not part of mopar. They are their own company. Rpm on diesel engines is usually measured at the alternater since there is no ignition system. Also, diesel engines will not start if there is no oil, has a bad oil pump, or has no oil pressure. Something else to look in to.
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:38 AM
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It's been a while since I put one in my truck I don't recall the exact stuff. You will have to take the starter out to really get at it.
If you look closely you will see a small bolt head. 10 mm I think off to the side. This is for the hold down bracket. The sensor has an o-ring seal on it and just pushes into the block. This can get hard and sticks to the bore. Carefully wiggle it back and forth and twist it and it will come out. If you get 'rough" with it.....well like I said you will learn some new cuss words.

Best bet will be to go get one at the auto parts store and look it over first. Make sure it is for your motor. 5.9 diesel. Look at their screen as they often make mistakes. I know this well.

Also go the DTR web site and ask about this.
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:59 PM
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???

after more testing i have found that the lift pump in the tank is bad. it also has a code for the transfer pump, but i can hear it run. i will post when it is running.
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Old 08-28-2011, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Also, diesel engines will not start if there is no oil, has a bad oil pump, or has no oil pressure. Something else to look in to.
Who fed you that tripe??? Unless it is a HUEI system like the 7.3 and 6.0 Powerstrokes, they will start and run without oil. Some use a system similar to G.M's, where if there is not sufficient oil pressure, it will kill the fuel supply circut. But without that, vroooooom till they seize......
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbchevfreak
Who fed you that tripe??? Unless it is a HUEI system like the 7.3 and 6.0 Powerstrokes, they will start and run without oil. Some use a system similar to G.M's, where if there is not sufficient oil pressure, it will kill the fuel supply circut. But without that, vroooooom till they seize......
A professional diesel mechanic who has been working in the industry for many years on all types of equipment(trucks, boats, loaders, etc..), went to college for diesel mechanics, and knows more about diesel engines than you know about your own nuts. Thats who.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:21 PM
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hey now

no name calling guys. any older "ford" installed diesel with heui injectors wont start without oil pressure. i have yet to find out about the cummins or duramax though.
i currently work in a dealership that sells ford and chevy, but fords are all the rage where i am. needless to say i stay busy fixing the 6.0's.
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