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Old 11-01-2007, 09:22 AM
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cutting splined steering shaft

I searched the archives but didn't see an answer. I'm using a Borgeson 3/4 36 spline shaft in my Fairlane. I need to cut 1/2 inch off both ends. 18 inch down to 17 inch. I think these are hardened shafts. Will a cut off wheel work or maybe a band saw? Seems like it would be easy to foul up the splines.
I hate to screw up a 35 dollar part so thought I'd ask first.
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Duane

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Old 11-01-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane lxiv
I searched the archives but didn't see an answer. I'm using a Borgeson 3/4 36 spline shaft in my Fairlane. I need to cut 1/2 inch off both ends. 18 inch down to 17 inch. I think these are hardened shafts. Will a cut off wheel work or maybe a band saw? Seems like it would be easy to foul up the splines.
I hate to screw up a 35 dollar part so thought I'd ask first.
Thanks
Duane
Duane,
These Borgeson shafts are not hardened but ductile steel. All you need is a good hacksaw, a fine blade like a 24 tooth and a very few minutes and you are through. Radius and clean the cut ends on a wheel or even with a file, clean out the splines and you are in business.
Dave

PS - don't forget that you have to 'time' universals like a driveshaft or they will bind - they, from experience, are about a half spline tooth off but no big deal
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
...don't forget that you have to 'time' universals like a driveshaft or they will bind...l
Could you elaborate at bit on this? Is that true for single universals (just one universal in the wheel to box connection) or just for multiple universals in a connection? I'm having trouble imagining what there would be to "time" if you have just one universal joint.

And when you have two or more universals, do you want them running at 180 degrees difference? Basically, if you could just go through this proceedure in a bit more detail.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:11 AM
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Cboy i time mine if i use two or more universals.I time them just like you would if you was cutting down a drive shaft.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
Could you elaborate at bit on this? Is that true for single universals (just one universal in the wheel to box connection) or just for multiple universals in a connection? I'm having trouble imagining what there would be to "time" if you have just one universal joint.

And when you have two or more universals, do you want them running at 180 degrees difference? Basically, if you could just go through this proceedure in a bit more detail.
If there is a single u joint, there is no timing to consider. Two have to have the same elements lined up. If you have more then they are 180* apart.

The attached thumbnail shows how 3 are assembled with 2 shafts. A bearing will go on the short shaft and is bolted to the frame to make it solid.

Dave
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:23 AM
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This 180* out of phase assembly technique is a new one on me. What is accomplished by doing this?


I have always assembled the joints with the same phasing, (timing),no matter how many joints there are.
This is the proper procedure as reccommended by Borgeson, and the other manufacturers as well. It seems to me that putting one joint out of phase 180* will create a hard spot.


The only time I have heard it reccomended to put a u joint out of phase is if you have a severe operating angle, (slightly past it's design limits)you can sometimes reduce the hard spot by putting your second u joint out of phase by 22 1/2 degrees. (in practicle application 22.5 is a hard number to get, as a 36 spline shaft indexes every 10 degrees. so 2-3 splines is the compromise.)

I have been using Maval u joints as the operating angle is alot more (41*)than the Borgeson "high angle" (35*) u joint, and seldom requires an "out of phase" assembly..Makes it easy to make the shafts from plain old 1030 CR round or SS round stock in my shop, as double D ends are made quite easily on the mill.


Later, mikey
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:00 PM
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Actually, looking at Daves shaft, the phasing is out 90*, not 180 like we were talking about.

Mikey
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:03 PM
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Hey I've said I was old and retired and most likely afflicted with CRS

I should have said 90*

My shafts are assembled correctly per Borgeson instructions (and good engineering practices) and 90* apposing each other. Physically, opposing shafts have to have to be at 90*

See my thumbnail above.

And wish that I had Mavel's too but too late$$$$

Dave
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:12 PM
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I am not sure as I would need to call my supplier but I think it would be close to 35$ for a 20 ft bar of that..And doing the double d ends is easy to do..

Sam
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:14 PM
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Like I said, it's a new one on me..I looked in my Borgeson catalog and on the website and even called Borgeson tech this morning to see if it was something new..

I maintain that it is incorrect to put any of the ujoints on a common shaft out 90* from any other.

None of the driveshafts that I've ever seen had it, and I am not aware of any stock setups like that either.


Could you please share the instructions that state that the 3rd u joint needs to be 90 out.

Later, mikey
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:02 PM
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I get confused way too easily. So just to make sure, is this correct for a 2 joint setup?

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Old 11-01-2007, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
I get confused way too easily. So just to make sure, is this correct for a 2 joint setup?

Yes, that is the correct way. See the attached straight from the Borgeson Catalog picked up at Burlington NSRA 19-20 Sept 07.


Dave

PS - Good Photoshop job !!
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:39 PM
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Cboy you got it !! That's the right way.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:12 PM
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Dave, that flyer is identical to page 22 in the 2006 paper borgeson catalog, on page 18 it shows two 3 joint systems, with all of the joints in phase.

There is no text that I can find that states to put the 3rd joint out of phase 90* either.



Please show where it says to put the 3rd ujoint in a system out of phase 90*

Later,
Mikey
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:28 PM
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Ok I see now... Daves shaft IS assembled correctly,

I was hung and got confused with Dewey's "
Quote:
"And when you have two or more universals, do you want them running at 180 degrees difference.
Which would work anyway, as 180 is 1/2 turn.

If you have 2 shafts then the second set of yokes on the second shaft will be out 90*, in that they have no choice.

I was arguing that putting a ujoint on the other end of a common shaft 90* out is wrong. and it still is.

Sorry to get everything all confused...Dewey is pretty good at asking those trick questions, and Dave was in on it all the time..

You old guys playing tricks on us kids....


Later, mikey
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