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Old 08-13-2011, 05:42 AM
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Cylinder head port filling

Hi all!

I've got to call the expirienced one more time.
It's a DOHC 16V russian engine that has to be ported to improve flow.


Intake in the bottom. Ignore the exhaust for now.
Yellow is what needs to be filled. Red is what's gonna be cut.

Actually, the area that needs to get filled was used for a factory injector placing. I want the ports to be parallel.

From the combustion chamber side it looks like this



It can't be welded with TIG/MIG, so I thought about using HTS-2000 brazing rod and 2 pieces of aluminum tubing to form the sides of the ports.

But then I came across A-788 and JB Weld epoxy compounds that use most of the US head porters to fill the ports. But it's kinda unavailable here. Poxipol is the best that you can source from A+B epoxy.

I wonder if I can, for example, use Hi-Gear QuikSteel to form the port, add exhaust system sealer with copper (so the QuikSteel sustains the 700F melting temperature of HTS-2000) and braze HTS-2000 on that.

I wonder if it would work and if anyone tried to do it that way. Or I should try.

p.s. The engine is 2.3 litre DOHC 16V. It's fairly wide spread here but to my mind it's too underestimated. We just wanna try making it faster, before we get some money to swap a V8. Also I'm doing it for practice.

Here is the side cut.


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Old 08-13-2011, 06:51 AM
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From the picture, if I understand it correctly- it has a shared intake port? If so, I would think just some regular 2 part epoxy like head porters use would work to close the hole. I would definately work the exhaust port over also,lol. You don't want to "hog" it out -just streamline it. The bottom picture of the cutaway looks like the exhaust port is really restricted.
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyBoy
From the picture, if I understand it correctly- it has a shared intake port? If so, I would think just some regular 2 part epoxy like head porters use would work to close the hole. I would definately work the exhaust port over also,lol. You don't want to "hog" it out -just streamline it. The bottom picture of the cutaway looks like the exhaust port is really restricted.
Well, yes. It's a shared port. I want them to stand alone and stay parallel.
Another view on the intake ports.


Here are some more pics of the head also showing some grinding work. (Not mine)

I wouldn't say that exhaust ports are restrictive. It's the side cut that doesn't show everything.


Another view on the side cut that we've done.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:52 AM
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I was looking at the bottom picture of your first set of pictures. It looked like the port was "bottle necked" at the flange.That is the area that needs to be streamlined. You are right about the short side radius. It doesn't need very much work from what I can tell , just some blending. The photo where you have the exhaust wall looks like a good idea.Looks to be an interesting engine. I'm not really understanding why they thought the shared intake port was a good idea,lol.
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:09 PM
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I meant extended exhaust wall. I can't believe nobody else has chimed in an opinion. I guess if is isn't a GM , Ford or Mopar they don't want to address it,lol. Airflow is airflow and an engine is simplely an air pump.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyBoy
I was looking at the bottom picture of your first set of pictures. It looked like the port was "bottle necked" at the flange.That is the area that needs to be streamlined. You are right about the short side radius. It doesn't need very much work from what I can tell , just some blending. The photo where you have the exhaust wall looks like a good idea.Looks to be an interesting engine. I'm not really understanding why they thought the shared intake port was a good idea,lol.
Yeah, it has an interesting head design so that's why I've decided to work with it. I do this engine for free (for my friend).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyBoy
I meant extended exhaust wall. I can't believe nobody else has chimed in an opinion. I guess if is isn't a GM , Ford or Mopar they don't want to address it,lol. Airflow is airflow and an engine is simplely an air pump.
Yep, well. Head porting isn't popular here. Most of the people think that going through a port with 32 mm dia "ball" cutter is enough for porting. Very little number of people care about some real airflow improvements.

Finally, I've came across an idea.
http://www.hardblok.com/
If I can use a block filler for filling that port in the middle?

Also some of my friends said maybe I should have tried brazing tin or lead, for example. I've bought HTS-2000 brazing rods, it's nice, but it would be kinda too expensive to fill the port with HTS...

Thanks!
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diskovod
Yeah, it has an interesting head design so that's why I've decided to work with it. I do this engine for free (for my friend).



Yep, well. Head porting isn't popular here. Most of the people think that going through a port with 32 mm dia "ball" cutter is enough for porting. Very little number of people care about some real airflow improvements.

Finally, I've came across an idea.
http://www.hardblok.com/
If I can use a block filler for filling that port in the middle?

Also some of my friends said maybe I should have tried brazing tin or lead, for example. I've bought HTS-2000 brazing rods, it's nice, but it would be kinda too expensive to fill the port with HTS...

Thanks!
Hardblok is used to strengthen the block by filling the water jackets either partially (to retain coolant flow) or completely (in drag race applications) where the engine will be run for a very short time and/or is fueled by alcohol. It is a cement (like a sidewalk) w/iron added along w/hardeners. It may not have the adhesion needed to use it inside a port and I don't know how it would react being used in an exhaust port.

What I see on the intake port is the basic lack of any short side radius. The exhaust side looks like it could benefit from a raised exit and subsequent re contouring of the port- but this could mean needing to hand fabricate headers- which you may do anyway.

I personally am not any sort of porting expert- but I would say a flow bench should be used to see if any improvements were actually being made by porting a pair of ports then testing, rather than doing a complete head and track testing it.

There are ways to make a usable flow bench, search for "make flow bench".
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:58 PM
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We used to experiment with Briggs & Stratton motors when we were racing go-karts. I found that J-B Weld will stick to intake ports if they are roughened up first with a burr. Never tried it on exhaust ports.
http://jbweld.net/index.php
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:44 PM
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Jb weld will work fine, roughing up the surface helps as does putting in small pins for the epoxy to form around. On the exhaust moroso makes an ultra high temp epoxy that should work- provided you're not turbocharging the engine. After you do this it appears you'll have 8 completely deperaate intake tracks, I would want to experiment with using different runner lengths on each track for each cylinder. Harmonic tuning can make huge gains is used right and perhaps you could use it twice. Same goes for cam timing, something like a polyquad but taken a step further.
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
What I see on the intake port is the basic lack of any short side radius. The exhaust side looks like it could benefit from a raised exit and subsequent re contouring of the port- but this could mean needing to hand fabricate headers- which you may do anyway.
Thanks for your input, cobalt327! The hand fabricated headers with pre-calculated length are in the way.

Quote:
I found that J-B Weld will stick to intake ports if they are roughened up first with a burr.
Thank you for your advice. The only thing is that J-B Weld is unavailable here, but I'll try to get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Jb weld will work fine, roughing up the surface helps as does putting in small pins for the epoxy to form around. On the exhaust moroso makes an ultra high temp epoxy that should work- provided you're not turbocharging the engine.
I can't find anything about high temp Moroso epoxy. Can you give me a link or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
After you do this it appears you'll have 8 completely deperaate intake tracks, I would want to experiment with using different runner lengths on each track for each cylinder. Harmonic tuning can make huge gains is used right and perhaps you could use it twice. Same goes for cam timing, something like a polyquad but taken a step further.
Yes, 8 intake runners and accurate harmonic tuning are all parts of the plan.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:22 PM
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Here's a product I found while surfing the web. If you can't buy it direct, I can buy it and ship it to you if you want me to....
http://www.zorotools.com/g/00065938/...hopping%2BFeed
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