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Old 12-30-2007, 09:44 PM
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Cylinder Honing - Flex Hone Grit Number - Help

Hi guys

can't find the information I was looking for so I just made a new post.

I need to "freshen up" my BBC cylinders. they have only 2000 miles on them, and I got the motor apart now. I think I should hone the cylinders before putting it back together with new rings (long story). The cylinders look good still - no ridges or scratches, and they still show the cross hatch honing pattern in them from the previous hone job.

If I get one of those flex hones (dingle-berries) and freshen up the cylinders, what "grit" number should I get for this? I think it's about 320.

What do you suggest

thanks

Lee

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Old 12-30-2007, 09:58 PM
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A good flex hone "dingle berry ball hone" is actually quite expensive to buy. You need to get friendly with a good local machinist. Get him to magnuflux your block and heads ,lightly hone the block with a flex hone and check the main saddle bores and connecting rod big end for correct specification (bearing crush) he can even polish the crank for ya if needed and get you the right rings and bearings at reasonable cost. Get him to lightly hone the lifter bores and deburr the bottoms of the lifter bores too. (or do it yourself). now you're ready to final clean the block and reassemble. I wouldn't bother with the roller cam. A good quality made solid flat tappet camshaft and quality lifters along with proper installation and break in is all you need to solve your dilemma at reasonable cost.
If you choose to replace the cam bearings, have the machinist install them for you.
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:15 PM
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The ring manufacturer/selection determines the finish hone. Need to buy your rings before you buy a hone, or have it honed. Actually, you need to have your cylinders measured to make sure they are still round and within spec.
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:43 AM
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If the cylinders are in spec. and you do the hone job, make sure you scrub the cylinders down good with a strong soap. Honing grit makes itself at home in the bores and is hard to get out, if it`s left in it wears the rings out in half the time. to check them we use WD40 on a white paper towel, if we see gray on the paper towel it means there not clean.
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
A good flex hone "dingle berry ball hone" is actually quite expensive to buy. You need to get friendly with a good local machinist. Get him to magnuflux your block and heads ,lightly hone the block with a flex hone and check the main saddle bores and connecting rod big end for correct specification (bearing crush) he can even polish the crank for ya if needed and get you the right rings and bearings at reasonable cost. Get him to lightly hone the lifter bores and deburr the bottoms of the lifter bores too. (or do it yourself). now you're ready to final clean the block and reassemble. I wouldn't bother with the roller cam. A good quality made solid flat tappet camshaft and quality lifters along with proper installation and break in is all you need to solve your dilemma at reasonable cost.
If you choose to replace the cam bearings, have the machinist install them for you.
I currently have only 1 local machine shop that I know - they are ok - not great. Bunch of younger guys - not that much experience. 5 years in business. They pretty much just machine and assemble drag racing engines. They are not "trained" machinists or automotive guys - just drag racing engine assemblers. I was going to use moly rings. Top ring moly, second ring - cast. Those are under $100. I was going to do the bearing measurements myself using plastigage, bore gauges, calipers, etc. If machining or polishing is needed, then I was going to use a shop. I would still like a roller cam. For as many guys telling my just to go solid FT, there are twice as many saying to go with a roller if I can afford it. There are 2 ebay stores that sell all comp cams stuff for 10-15% less than summit and jegs. I can get a good roller cam, lubricated roller lifters, and springs from them for about $700. Summit and Jegs want like $850 or more for the same thing. I think I would like to find another machine shop though. But when I've tried things like that in the past I often learn I should have just stuck with "ok" and not search for "perfect". If I switch to a different machine shop I may be in a worse situation. Kind of sucks not knowing where to go for help with that.

Some of what you said though is the same thing my current shop said. The guy of there (Tony) said he would like to clean the block, pull all the oil galley plugs, and cam bearings and thrououghly clean all oil passages, then reinstall new cam bearings. He said it's cheap and easy. Then he said he wanted to install the main bearing caps and check for align honing if needed. Then he said he would check the cylinders and hone. He didnt say anything about the rod big end bearing clearances though.
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:54 AM
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Cylinder Honing-Flex Hone Grit Number-Help

Lee it sounds like this may be the best way to go,trust me,getting oil gallery plugs out is not easy for a do it yourselfer,although it can be done,it is a PITA.If these are younger guys and they assemble race engines,it sounds to me like they are a bunch of gear heads and know what they are doing.You can assemble the motor yourself,its not rocket science.I think you should stick with your plan of going with a roller cam setup,the last thing you would need is to go to all this work and have a came lobe go flat.These guys may give you a deal on gaskets & bearings if you give them some work.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Hiltz
Lee it sounds like this may be the best way to go,trust me,getting oil gallery plugs out is not easy for a do it yourselfer,although it can be done,it is a PITA.If these are younger guys and they assemble race engines,it sounds to me like they are a bunch of gear heads and know what they are doing.You can assemble the motor yourself,its not rocket science.I think you should stick with your plan of going with a roller cam setup,the last thing you would need is to go to all this work and have a came lobe go flat.These guys may give you a deal on gaskets & bearings if you give them some work.
thanks I appreciate some words of encouragement. It helps. My current plan (changes daily!!!) is to bring them the block. I want it cleaned inside and out and honed - and get ready for "assembly" by me at home. That I want done for sure. I will also bring them the main caps, crankshaft, and piston/rod assemblies just "because"? for "inspection" purposes if you know what I mean. I have to be careful with these guys. they may want to do "everything" which will cost me between $300 and $800, when I all really "want" them to do is clean the block inside and out ($150) Like I said I have to be careful with what I tell them and await their initial inspection results and go from there. The price can go up very quickly if they start doing major stuff and finding major situations. Sort of like going to a doctor who wants "tests" done. Can be very expensive and time consuming if you let a doctor get carried away with all kinds of tests.

But I am not stupid either. The motor is apart now - this is the time to survey and analyze the cylinders, block, crank, pistons, rods, bearings, rings, etc. I don't want to save $100 and have a problem later and do it all over again. I just hope they dont find anything "expensive".

These guys have a website - check it out.

http://www.aesracing.net/
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:04 AM
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Cylinder Honing-Flex Hone Grit Number-Help

I looked at the link you provided and it sure looks like these guys know their stuff.If you are the least bit worried that they may try to sell you services you dont need,if your crank turned freely,you can feel no sharp edges on the journals with your fingernail,and the bearings looked like they were wearing evenly,dont take the crank,rods/pistons.It could be whoever built that motor in the first place may have had all the necessary machine work & balancing done.
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Hiltz
I looked at the link you provided and it sure looks like these guys know their stuff.If you are the least bit worried that they may try to sell you services you dont need,if your crank turned freely,you can feel no sharp edges on the journals with your fingernail,and the bearings looked like they were wearing evenly,dont take the crank,rods/pistons.It could be whoever built that motor in the first place may have had all the necessary machine work & balancing done.
Right - I'm sure whoever built it in the first place (4 years ago) did all the bearing clearances, balancing, etc. I hope they did it right. The crank moved freely - the bearings were mostly fine - except for some scoring and signs of stress due to the problems I had (loss of oil pressure - and lifter/lobe damage) Maybe I'll bring the crank, rods, pistons, etc just to "show them" when I drop it off. If they say they look fine - then I'll take them back home with me and leave them just the block. I'll have to see what they say when I drop them off.

Lee
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:21 PM
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What does the crank look like to you? Does it need to be reground, polished? or is it still pristene?
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:28 PM
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I assume you do not have a torque plate.

I'd bet the cost of paying a shop to hone with a torque plate versus the cost of buying a good dingle-ball hone and the amount of potential Hp lost due to out-of-round/ poor honing doing it yourself represents one of the cheapest $ to Hp gains you'll find.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
What does the crank look like to you? Does it need to be reground, polished? or is it still pristene?
well you would have to look at it and tell me. I'm no expert. The journals are in good shape - they are not "perfectly polished" but they are not scratched or scored or anything. I measured them with my piece of junk made in china digital caliper.

I got about 2.750 on the mains and about 2.200 on the rod journals. that's spec I guess. So I know it hasnt been "ground down".

Lee
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:18 PM
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Next time you see the good old analog dial calipers with the mechanical dial face get one.
I checked mine with a mic and its pretty good. The cheap digital readout calipers are down right scarry. (even for a cheap hack like me) But might make a good digital bearing seal remover.
Sounds like the crank just needs polishing.
What do the lifter bores look like. Especially the bottom. Any burred edges or score marks in the lifter bores? Clean each lifter bore and lube it with oil and try a good lifter in each. Should be a close precision fit when you put the lifter in the bore but should not drag at all when you spin the lifter with the bore clean and lubed. Try each one.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Next time you see the good old analog dial calipers with the mechanical dial face get one.
I checked mine with a mic and its pretty good. The cheap digital readout calipers are down right scarry. (even for a cheap hack like me) But might make a good digital bearing seal remover.
Sounds like the crank just needs polishing.
What do the lifter bores look like. Especially the bottom. Any burred edges or score marks in the lifter bores? Clean each lifter bore and lube it with oil and try a good lifter in each. Should be a close precision fit when you put the lifter in the bore but should not drag at all when you spin the lifter with the bore clean and lubed. Try each one.
Hi F-bird - how's it goin - happy new year buddy - thanks again for all your help lately

amazingly my cheapy $15 digital .000" 6" digital caliper is amazingly good and accurate for a piece of junk. I bet it's within .002" accuracy. Everything I've measured with it seems to match up to what it's supposed to be if you know what I'm saying. I just measured a couple of my cylinders using a cheap telescoping bore gauge and cheapy digital caliper and it was within .002" (It's a 4.310" bore) But yes, If I find a "dial" type analog one for under $35 somewhere (new or used) I will get it, but until then I'll use my cheapy digital one that works good.

No burred edges on the bottom of the lifter bores. I havent dropped in a lifter to each bore yet, but I decided to bring the block to a shop and have them go through it (I will complain the whole time though about $) they will hone the cylinders and lifter bores and make sure they are perfect prior to assembly.

I'll keep you posted.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:52 PM
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happy new Year to you too. time ofr me to get off this stupid compuder and go down to Victoria park in the falls to bring in the new year. HoneyMoon Suite and LoverBoy are putting on a concert down in the park by the falls.
Love the HMS tunes. later.

http://www.cliftonhill.com/niagara_f...lls_new_years/

http://www.honeymoonsuite.com/
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