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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2005, 03:25 PM
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Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater;


Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle-

(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds);


(a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A) — Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).


Can somebody with more brains than me decipher this crap and tell me, in plain English, exactly what it means 'cause all I see is a contradiction.

Is the limit 10,000 lbs or 26,000lbs combined?

Larry

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2005, 04:52 PM
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The way I read this is that we are allowed a max gross of 26,000 lb combined weight of truck and trailer..Now if the trailer weight is in excess of 10,000 lb then the trigger is tripped and then one would need the CDL and comply with the DOT..

So basically my interpretation is that the guy with a pickup or small enclosed trailer that does not exceed any of the weight limits would be fine provided he is hauling his own stuff and not for hire..

The fellows that raise some eyebrows on the part of the DOT to me would be the guys with say an F350 dually pulling a triple axle goose-neck full of race car and tools and such crossing a state line..those rigs can go in excess of 26,000 combined and trip the levers of the DOT

OMT
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2005, 06:33 PM
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I was driving east on I-80 between IA City and Davenport a few years ago and the DOT had an ambulance pulled over for a roadside inspection.
Better him than me
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2005, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
The way I read this is that we are allowed a max gross of 26,000 lb combined weight of truck and trailer..Now if the trailer weight is in excess of 10,000 lb then the trigger is tripped and then one would need the CDL and comply with the DOT..

So basically my interpretation is that the guy with a pickup or small enclosed trailer that does not exceed any of the weight limits would be fine provided he is hauling his own stuff and not for hire..
OMT
That's exactly how I read it too.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 03:11 AM
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D.O.T/ California DMV...What a joke!!!

I live in California. My wife and I decided to buy a pick-up truck last year. I get in the mail, a registration renewal notice from California DMV...$500.00+ I'm thinking HOLY CRAP, what's this!!! I went to my local DMV office and asked and I was shocked to learn their answer.

Apparently in California if you own a standard run of the mill pick-up truck. California classifies it as a COMMERCIAL vehicle and YOU WILL be charged registration fee's and taxes equal to that of a COMMERCIAL vehicle/business because I, you, whomever "COULD" use said vehicle to transport products, for commerce, etc. It is irrelevant if said vehicle is being used solely for a private conveyance, you will be charged fee's and taxes that of a commercial vehicle business.

I also own an inflatable 4' pool raft. If I had to register it with California's DMV then I guess California DMV "COULD" charge me registration/taxes that are equal to me owning a 100' yacht.

Since when is it possible for anyone, business, government, whatever able to charge a fee for something that an individual "COULD" own or "COULD" do with their personal property.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 06:36 AM
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this has been brewin for years...wisconson you better stop at the scales.
Indiana you better be watching you length...etc.etc.etc...

get used to it the dot is going to crack down on this because they have been watching revenue go out the door...
someone said something about deducting it and socking it to them.. gues what the first time you buy your fuel permit(and yes this is coming for duallies)you won't even get a precentage back what you were trying to write..

the started busting people 6 years ago down at irp for over length and no air brake endoresments in motorhomes.....

this has been on the bubble for a long time ....

always if you ever get pulled over say just racing or fun...
get the sponser decals off the side of the trailer and the cars..even if you just put the stickers on there to be cool...

the moment you are for winning money you becoame for profit and ANY!! truck and trailer has to follow DOT regulations...make friends and take your local dot cop out to lunch sit down and have a long talk with him.. you will learn...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 04:15 PM
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The horse people are finding this out too.
We've been looking at big toy haulers and these things get heavy fast. They come with 3 6000# axels and barely make rating with them. The factory turns around will put 8k axels on for a fee. But it hasn't solved the problem of the whole thing being over the GCWR. 8000# truck and 18k trailer. 26k and you haven't loaded up Your stuff yet. The individual vehicle is not over weight but the GCWR is.

We haven't even been able to get agreement from the cops and troopers on this. They kinda throw up their hands, the cops say it's not their problem and the troopers say we have bigger fish to catch...just don't speed and break other traffic laws.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seriousracer

...get the sponser decals off the side of the trailer and the cars..even if you just put the stickers on there to be cool...

the moment you are for winning money you becoame for profit and ANY!! truck and trailer has to follow DOT regulations..
Also any lettering referring to a business.

CATCH 22

If it is indeed a legitimate business, you must mark the vehicle as a commercial vehicle to comply with IRS regulations. That of course draws the interest of the DOT man.

It's going to be like the old days...flat towing or an open car trailer with just a little equipment carried in the bed of the truck.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:30 AM
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[QUOTE=seriousracer] get used to it the dot is going to crack down on this because they have been watching revenue go out the door...

You couldn't be more correct in this statement. Because of the business I'm in we deal with the D.O.T. more times than I would like to admit-

I recently went to a meeting with the head of the D.O.T. for the State we do business in-he told it to us like it is-this is all about the MONEY. If you have a Travel Trailer, don't go through the Port-there's no money in it for THEM. If, however, you look big enough, LOOK like a Commerical enterprise, look out, you are fair game.

If you get pulled over and don't have a up-to-date Log Book, CDL, IFTA sticker (or receipt), Medical Card, Trip Permit and proper Insurance, you had better be a good Actor-I hear stories all the time from Truckers who deliver to us about getting out of Tickets (through various means), going around the Port, setting their Trucks up with Air valving to drop air in the Trailer axles and stuff to "unload" the Axles across the Scales (which is getting tougher as they are now making more Scales long enough to weigh the entire Truck and Trailer)-and a lot of other tricks-why? You get an over zealous Officer (who may mean well or is just a jerk), they can interpret the rules (read: twist) to their liking-we are 100% compliant and still have to fight them sometimes (the head of the D.O.T. gave everyone of us at the Meeting his Card in case of trouble-I have had to call him more than once due to "interpretation")-

I could not agree more about making your Trailer look like it's being used for personal use-it may not help, but it certainly can't hurt.

Last edited by 35WINDOW; 10-30-2007 at 07:36 AM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:31 AM
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I got the pleasure of talking to the nice guys in the blue patrol cars three times last week.

The first time was no problem.

The second time I was rolling down a big hill with 82,540 pounds and I exceeded the speed limit a little. That was the money stop. The officer told me that since I was speeding I had just volunteered for a roadside inspection and of course one little fray on an air hose put me out of service. If they want to write you tickets they can always find something. The mechanic that repaired the truck could not believe it. He told me the officer was really reaching for that one. He could not get me for being overweight since I had a load of soybeans and was legal to 88,000

The third time I was just going into a small town and I was about 10 mph under the speed limit when I met a DOT car and he flipped his lights on and turned around. He asked me for my scale ticket and I told him that since I was hauling out of a field I didn't have one for this load. Then he asked me where I was hauling this load and I told him Council Bluffs. He wanted to see my other scale tickets so I gave him the tickets for the last two loads that were 86,00 and 84,000, both legal loads. He asked me if this load was about the same and I told him it was. He didn't even bother weighing me witch kind of surprised me. When I weighed at council bluffs I had on 87,840 pounds so it was a legal load.

One day last week I saw three DOT officers with smaller vehicles stopped. One had a pickup and a trailer stopped just outside of Clarinda, Iowa. Another had one of those one ton cube vans stopped just before the Jordan Creek exit at West Des Moines. That one was sitting on the portable scales. Then I was headed back westbound and there was a DOT officer that had stopped a one ton dually pickup on the eastbound lines by the Van Meter exit. That one didn't even have a trailer on it. Must have been stop the light duty day.

I had better get around, I have to go pay my fines today.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:43 AM
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I've been stopped and had my tank dipped a couple times now in central Minn in the farm belt. They even checked my 2 5 gallon cans in the bed.

Just a tip for you diesel guys...I'd forget the Marvel Mystery Oil and ATF as an additive. It turns the fuel red and you are very suspect. Most likely they will give you a ticket and it is up to you to prove it is not red farm fuel.

Besides a number of tests have shown that this and ATF are not good additives for todays diesel.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:48 AM
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Regarless of how nice it looks, how proud you are of it, never put any race or sponser decals on your rig.

If you are a legit race team and deduct expenses and all that, then make sure you have everything in order. Log book and all. But I'd still skip the decals unless it tied to sponser money.

A little hassle now will save a lot later.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 10:03 AM
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i should have siad "watching revenue pass them by on the highway"...

kultulz.. please understand i am not try to be a jerk but... ANY truck or trailer with a race car means that the toyota mini truck pulling an alter on a tow dolley.. with sponser decals on it...can be pulled over for DOT inspection..

the toy hauler travel trailers would be good camefloge..LOL
been talking to the state boys here for a couple of years about this. the big one is trailer plates.. always by the trailer plates or truck plates with teh correct rating for them..

crash farmer thanks for the heads up on iowa i have to head thru there next weekend.. better get the rears changed out on the 3/4 ton...

it only gonna get worse ..much worse..
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 11:31 AM
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My son and I have a go around about this weight, CDL and dollars about once a month. He has a CDL and has driven professionally so I have 2 strike against me everytime we argue.

It's pretty clear in my mind that if the truck/trailer is to haul a racer that even has potential to win $$$ you must comply with DOT. Whether it is a business or not makes no difference.

His contention always is that it is his unit and racer and he does not claim IRS business deduction. He is not working for any one and gets no pay for driving.

I say it doesn't matter, money changes hands as a result of his operating the vehicle on the road therefore Dot reg apply. Who works for whom makes no difference.

If the driver is paid then bets are off. Dot applies.

If it is a toy hauler with my streetrod and we are going to a streetrod event and not entering anything where even a trophy is offered, strictly an RV unit and for personal pleasure, DOT does not apply except for proper unit licensing for weight, and the units need to not be over weights anywhere, etc. You also need appropriate driver license endorsement for the larger over 10k trailer. This is about the only thing that we agree on.

The 23k GCVR vs potential 25,999 limit is also up for discussion. You are over weight at 23,001 according to the way I see the rules.

Prepared to eat black crow.......... or sirloin haha
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2007, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seriousracer

kultulz.. please understand i am not try to be a jerk but... ANY truck or trailer with a race car means that the toyota mini truck pulling an alter on a tow dolley.. with sponser decals on it...can be pulled over for DOT inspection..

the toy hauler travel trailers would be good camefloge..LOL
been talking to the state boys here for a couple of years about this. the big one is trailer plates.. always by the trailer plates or truck plates with teh correct rating for them..
You are correct. Interpretation and enforcement is up to the officer. It is up to the judge if you feel he is wrong.

Tag ratings- This is another area they can light you one and for good reason. Many operators will buy lower weight limit tags for a heavier rated vehicle and then haul gross loads on the light tags. Trying to save money and it usually backfires.

The GVW rating is what they go by (on the data plate).

MD Plate Costs-

Quote:
Class E Truck, Class F Truck Tractor, and Class EFT Farm Truck are renewed yearly (GVW or GCW in lbs. - Fee is shown per 1,000 lbs., an additional $13.50 surcharge per year for the EMS system will be added.)

E
10,000 - 18,000 lbs.
$9.00

E
18,001 - 26,000 lbs.
$11.75

E
26,001 - 40,000 lbs.
$12.75

E
40,001 - 60,000 lbs.
$14.75

E
60,001 - 80,000 lbs.
$16.00

EFT
minimum 10,000 - 40,000 lbs.
$5.00

EFT
40,001 - 65,000 lbs.
$5.25

F
minimum 40,000 - 60,000 lbs.
$21.00

F
minimum 60.001 - 80,000 lbs.
$22.50

Trailers
G Trailer 3,000 lbs. or less $51.00*
G Trailer 3,001 - 5,000 lbs. $102.00*
G Trailer 5,001 - 10,000 lbs. $160.00*
G Trailer 10,001 - 20,000 lbs. $248.00*
G Freight trailer or semi-trailer (per 1,000 lbs.) $76.50*

*Registration fee does not require a surcharge.
CDL License Classes-

Quote:
Commercial Driver License Class Code

Driver License Class You May Drive: You May Tow: Exceptions

A
Any single combination of vehicles
Any trailer
Motorcycles

Endorsements may be required

B
Motor vehicles 26,001 or more pounds (GVW)
Trailers 10,000 pounds or less
Combination of Class F (tractor) and Class G (trailer) Motorcycles

Endorsements may be required

C
Motor vehicles under 26,001 pounds (GVW)
Trailers 10,000 pounds or less
Motorcycles

Endorsements required
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