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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2005, 09:39 PM
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Cleanliness is a must when doing any colorsanding reguardless if it's done by hand or with a DA. Don't forget stuff can collect in the airhose coupler, on the air hose, on your clothes, your wristwatch, fall from the ceiling, etc, etc. Keep the shop door closed if there's any amount of wind. I do most of my sanding by hand then switch to a DA for the 3000 grit wet. Cutting by hand to knock the specs and any texture down is a must IMO, then use the DA for the finer grits. Also, don't forget if you've got a dirty paint job with some major specs the specs will sometimes contain an abrasive particle that'll make nasty scratches when you knock them off and move them around. If the clear is balling up and sticking to the pad and causing fishhooks then I'd say she's a little on the fresh side, if you let the clear setup longer it won't be as much of a problem. If you turn the DA down and don't run it wide open you'll also see that it cuts faster. I use a squirt bottle of water with a few drops of dishsoap for wetting the 3M pad down-seems to work good. Bob

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2005, 04:05 AM
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I know that a da makes the job seem easier. I personally like to wet sand it by hand until I get the the final smoothing for buffing stages. By then it should be pretty clean of any specs that were in the paint. Sanding by hand, I usually use a piece of stir stick wraped with the sand paper. I can feel if there is something under it easier that way. I am also doing a smaller area, so only have a smaller area when a problem shows up. I like using a spray bottle better also because of less chance of containants. It is hard enough to get the water through them things. Not much chance of something that will scratch coming through.

Just my opinion. Everyone has their own way.

Aaron
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:08 AM
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I have never had the above problems with dry dry-sanding but I do do the following . I don't know if its right or not just something that seems to work for me.

I slow the DA down as slow as it will go but fast enough to run smooth.
I keep a clean paper towel (prep wipe) in my hand and about every 30 seconds I clean the sandpaper with the paper towel by buzzing the DA on it and then wipe the area I'm DA-ing.

Still prefer to go over with wet paper or will use the mirika 2000 and 4000 wet and go over a deck lid for an example for five minutes with each grit.
I do speed up the DA when using the above sponge grits and just keep going over and over the panel.

Like I say, don't know if right but learned the above all by my self.
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:42 AM
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Has anyone used a "Waterbug" sander to color sand?
I have been told they work really good.
It's an air sander with a water line hook-up made just for
wet sanding.
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Old 10-25-2005, 07:55 AM
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Yep, what BarryK said...speed of the D.A. is very critical. Also, go to your local paint store, check out 3M's new Perfect-It 3000 series. It has step by step instructions and tells you exactly which compound to use. I very seldom start out with anything coarser than 1000 grit. This system works really good and is simple and you don't have all that nasty clean up afterwards.
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Old 10-25-2005, 08:24 AM
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How about micron paper?

One of the reasons we get pigtails is because the particulate...or abrasive that is bonded to the paper is not consistant in size. As a result of this there are "spikes" in the abrasive. Some particles are actually larger or longer than others. The particulate, or 'sand' if you will on micron paper is all the same size and diameter all the way around each particle and consistant through the whole disc. There are no spikes.

Micron paper runs, in class, the opposite of regular sandpaper. In other words, 100 grit is a coarser grit and 80 is finer than 100. If you use micron paper in steps going down in number ( it goes all the way down to 1 Micron) you can actually bring the finish to a perfct mirror effect. This process can be done with a 5" random orbital (I use electric....Porter-Cable). I also use a spray bottle with something like Windex. I do not recommend an air sander.

Micron paper cost more, but the results are worth the price. You can buy it in stick-it or hook-it (I use and recommend stick-it). It would be best to take a piece of sheet metal, paint it, and test this out before trying it on your new paint job.

An important thing to remember is that as you go from step to step you must be thorough. 15 micron, for instance will not finish up what 30 micron did not get. As you get to 15 micron you will see a pretty nice shine. If you take it all the way to 1 micron you will be amazed!

Good luck and let me know.

Chris
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Old 10-25-2005, 02:22 PM
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Anybody else here using the micron paper? Sounds like there isn't much need to have a large amount of compound on hand if this works like Trucknut describes. Anymore info? Suppliers? Is it a time savings? Interesting, this is only the second time I've heard it mentioned but I'm still in the dark. Bob
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2005, 03:44 PM
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We had one of the orbital sanders with the water hookups for wetsanding at an old job of mine. It seemed to work good to me, but we weren't doing any show cars. I never noticed getting any pigtails with it.
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Old 10-25-2005, 03:59 PM
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When I used to dry sand, I used a similar method to the one Barry K mentions. I would regularly wipe the disc and paint surface with a clean, dry, microfibre cloth, to remove the 'dust', and any balling up.

It seemed to make the discs last longer too.

I've since moved back to wet sanding though. 1500 or 2000 to block down, then finish off with a 4000 abralon disc (wet) on dark colours, or 'special' jobs.
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Old 10-25-2005, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguy
I've since moved back to wet sanding though. 1500 or 2000 to block down, then finish off with a 4000 abralon disc (wet) on dark colours, or 'special' jobs.
Since you say "block" on the 1500/2000, I presume this is by hand. Or, are you using a DA?

Seems like starting with 1500 or 2000 by hand would be very time consuming if there were any orange peel at all to get rid of.
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:31 PM
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Hey Roger I used to cut with 1500 Nikkens paper and then buff... Since have moved to 2000 before buffing... Now destroying the DA gig....

I like to use 1000 if you are going by hand first, then move up in grit for buffing... With the DA I am going to go 600, then 1200 then buff.... Next car I do I will use this method and post a pic... If I have time I will also sand the oposing panel by hand and buff and see what looks better.. Then I will make them look equal so we dont have unhappy customers

Matthew
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BondoKing
Hey Roger I used to cut with 1500 Nikkens paper and then buff... Since have moved to 2000 before buffing... Now destroying the DA gig....

I like to use 1000 if you are going by hand first, then move up in grit for buffing... With the DA I am going to go 600, then 1200 then buff.... Next car I do I will use this method and post a pic... If I have time I will also sand the oposing panel by hand and buff and see what looks better.. Then I will make them look equal so we dont have unhappy customers

Matthew
Thanks BK!
This is interesting stuff for me right now as I will be this phase soon with my '69 Vette that I'm doing in PPG Global SS.

And, btw, I'll be doing it by hand first as I haven't ever used a DA for this and it would scare the heck out of me to use one with anything that coarse. But, I am thinking I might try the Mirka for the final sanding.

Last edited by roger1; 10-25-2005 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 10-25-2005, 07:30 PM
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The Abralon Mirka 4000 disc are great... Used them this summer and really liked them.. I always use the same compound so that did not matter, but it did make the job much faster... It only took one pass with compound to remove the scratches where as before it could take a couple... U can use them wet or dry.... They seemed to polish better for me dry

Matthew
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1
Since you say "block" on the 1500/2000, I presume this is by hand. Or, are you using a DA?

Seems like starting with 1500 or 2000 by hand would be very time consuming if there were any orange peel at all to get rid of.
Yes, I do mean by hand.

I work in what you guys would call a production shop, so a good finish from the gun is essential for speed, so there's usually very little orange peel to get rid of, just the odd bit of dust inclusion.

Also remember that most factory finishes are far from peel free, so we have to leave some kind of 'texture' to the paint, to match the original.

I'm actually repainting half a car today, as the customer complained we got it too smooth
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:03 AM
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I watched the 3M guy demonstrate the 3M Trizact system this past July at the Syracuse Nationals.
Started with 1500 dry, then went to 3000 with a SPRITZ of water on the pad. He reiterated the soft interface pad was the key. Followed up with Wool pad (LIGHT!), then the white waffle then black.

Mirror finish. Did some black panels and some red. (I watched it 3 times)

Ebay has trizact "kits" for sale with the pad, interface, and a slew of discs for under $100
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