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Old 10-12-2008, 10:23 PM
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Dart Iron eagle.... Good deal????

I am just ran into a set of Dart iron eagle's today 200cc intake 72cc chamber for $400 bare stock casting from a buddy. He was gonna use em on his 406, but decided to go with aluminum to run more compression.

I've been through this already, but I always forget what I can and cant use. I have KB119 .5cc dome pistons and a lunati 300 bracket master II cam (246/246 @.050", .515/.515 lift). Right now I have stock 76cc smogger heads with good springs. I just want to know How much of a power increase I would see with these heads. I guy on here directed me to a compression calculator that puts my current CR at 9.2:1. These heads with a .015" compressed steel shim head gasket would bring my CR to 10.1:1, and I'm sure they'll flow better than what I have now, but how much HP and TQ would they be worth v.s. $$$$. I have the money and I'm ready to buy a set of heads now but I just can't decide. I know I can't use vortecs with the domes, But will the darts even work or what??

Can someone please try and give me an educated/expierience guesstimate here. I have looked very close at the Brodix IK's also, but they're $650 more than what I can get these Darts for. Would a brodix IK really add $650 worth of HP and TQ over these DART IE's?? Someone please help me If you can I'm really trying to do this the right way with research before I just through money at the "prettiest" ones. Thanks
Danny

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Old 10-13-2008, 01:51 AM
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Even at 10.1:1, you're still a little short on c.r. for that cam. It really should have 10.5 to 12.0 c.r.

The 200cc heads are a little ambitious for a 355, but since the range of the cam is 3,500 to 7,000, they might work ok. Is everything else in the motor up to the task of turning 7,000? Are you willing to live with a converter that stalls at 3,500+? You'll need some steep gears in the rear, well into the 4. range. Does that sound like a plan? If so, go for it.
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Old 10-13-2008, 02:38 AM
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rpm range

tech,
Lunati has this cam listed at 2500-6500 rpm, and yes the rest of the motor will hold 6500 no problem. I rode In the truck it was in on 2 passes at the mud drags with the man i got it from and the shift light was set at 6500 while I was in there. Please fill me in on where you got 4000-7000. You obviously have a lot more expierience than me so If you know something about this cam that lunati isn't telling me please share it. I'm doing the best I can to make educated decisions based off what they advertise.

Yes 200cc may be a little ambitious, but thats why I'm asking. I want to make the best decision possible dollar for dollar. I was told that the iron eagle 180's aren't really good flowing anyway and The price I was offered was for 200's, so I'm kinda stuck to what he's got.

You say a 200cc runner is a little to much. I know how the theory works with the larger runner, but do you know where I could find some numbers that would actually show me how much torque I would sacrifice by going with a 200 v.s. 180. I have looked all over for specific info, but all I can find is the vague statement "you'll lose your bottom end". I believe I'll lose some, but does anyone know how much?? and shouldn't I get it back with more rpms??. I don't need it to be a torque monster at 2000, I don't plan on towing anything, but I wish there was a way for me to see what the numbers would be around my stall rating (little above and below).

I have a 411 eaton posi I'm puttin in, I don't really wanna go no more than that. Also, I know this thing would be a beast at 12.5:1 on racing fuel. It needs to run on pump gas. Even with aluminum in a car as heavy as mine, I couldn't get more than 11:1. Sooo, I wanna stick to 10.5 and below with iron.
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Old 10-13-2008, 03:02 AM
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Hold on, I'll be up for another half hour, so will run it on the DynoSim....
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Old 10-13-2008, 03:26 AM
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RPM TQ HP
2000 290 110
2500 303 144
3000 324 185
3500 372 248
4000 416 317
4500 447 383
5000 464 442
5500 452 473
6000 435 496
6500 405 501
7000 368 491
7500 335 478
That's with RPM manifold, 850 carb, 1 3/4" headers. 2* cam retard makes 504 hp @ 6,500. 2* retard and 750 carb makes 498 hp.

Last edited by techinspector1; 10-13-2008 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 10-13-2008, 03:00 PM
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It may lose tourque on the bottom end compared to 180 cc darts but compared to your smogger heads it will pick up big time even on the bottom end.I would expect at least 50 hp improvement and more likely in the 75 to 100 hp compared to smoggers.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:12 PM
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dyno numbers

Thanks for the numbers tech, I am assuming this was with the 200cc heads I mentioned. Those really don't look all that bad to me. If I can achieve anything between 425-450 on FWHP and TQ I'll be plenty satisfied. If you figure about %18 drivetrain powerloss, thats still putting over 350 to the ground. I just say %18 cuz I here that is a pretty typical number to go by. I don't know what the real % of loss would be. Was this put in with a 0 or .025 deck height??

Tech, I'm sure you are a busy man and you have more folks to help, But if you or any other readers of this gets time (and have the software). Would you mind seeing what the numbers would be with the Iron eagle 180's At the same CR (72cc chamber) and the Brodix IK 180 with a 70cc chamber and a 10.5:1 CR. I would just like to see a comparison to see there would be $600 worth of power gained, or If I'd lose power.
I Have not yet even been able to find flow #'s for the IK 180's.

The last thing is...... You didn't mention me having a clearance issue from the dome pistons on the eagles, so They will be OK. I will check all clearances during mock up assembly, but If you say I won't run into the same issue as a vortec would have If going for it. Thanks for the info
Danny
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