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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2009, 10:18 PM
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900hp 350?

As we all know David Vizard is a respected engine builder that has written many books and articles on the subject so normally i would question what he writes but the other day I picked up one of his books and was truly baffled.


He was talking about combinations that he had supposidly built and tested. This engine was a 350 that he said he build for under 10,000 dollars and managed with the aid of nitrous to make 900 HP.

My comments on this is:

First using a stock 4 bolt main 350 for 900 HP levels is not wise and is pushing it just too far - the same goes for the stock crank, cast iron or not

Also a number of the parts were claimed to have been from swap meets but he didn't break down the price of the parts. I also don't have much faith in people's claimed swap meet prices.

Anyway the parts listed for the build are as following:


1.) Block-four bold 010 truck block bored .030
2.) Pistons-Forged Ross flat tops
3.) Head gasket-Felpro
4.) Final CR-10:1
5.) Crank-Low mileage factory forged and ground -0.020.
6.) Rods-used Crower 5.7s from swap meet
7.) Oil Pump-stock reworked; MM&S
8.) Pan-Moroso
9.) Cam-Crane dual pattern Part No. 113801
10.) Lifters-Crane regular
11.) Valve Train-Isky aluminum. 1.6 intake, 1.5 exhaust; Isky pushrods; MM&S timing set
12.) Heads-041s ported for N2O use; bronze guides; screw in studs and flat milled
13.) Intake-Victor Jr. with plate nitrous kit mounted on it
14.) Carb-reworked 750 Holley to 820cfm
15.) Air Filter-K&N
16.) Ignition-HEI with MSD module; 20* total with nitrous, 32* without nitrous
17.) Plugs/Cables: MSD
18.) Headers-Walker 1 3/4 inch with 18 inch collector extensions
19.) Mufflers-Open exhaust


So what do you all think?

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Last edited by connecting_rodd; 09-25-2009 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 09-26-2009, 12:08 AM
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Thats why they say "The pen is mightier than the sword"!
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:26 AM
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David Vizzard

HP does not break and engine at nearly the rate that rpm does,if it was done at 6000 rpm with 500 shot it is very possible although after 2 or 3 runs I would duck from flying rods,.
In his book how to build a sbc on a budget I built his # 3 combo and have it in the same car as his test car a Z28 I ran a 13.68 at mph it cost me 2,500.0 Canadian dollars to build. He does not BS.

PS my brother in his 90 mustang gt convertible with a stock motor with 22,000miles on it put a 400 hp Nos kit ito it total hp 625 on paper 17 runs and all he blew were the head gaskets,never say never he ran 11.79 with drag radials and flowmasters,on run # 24 the motor grenaded.
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Old 09-26-2009, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapsz28
HP does not break and engine at nearly the rate that rpm does,if it was done at 6000 rpm with 500 shot it is very possible although after 2 or 3 runs I would duck from flying rods,.
In his book how to build a sbc on a budget I built his # 3 combo and have it in the same car as his test car a Z28 I ran a 13.68 at mph it cost me 2,500.0 Canadian dollars to build. He does not BS.

PS my brother in his 90 mustang gt convertible with a stock motor with 22,000miles on it put a 400 hp Nos kit ito it total hp 625 on paper 17 runs and all he blew were the head gaskets,never say never he ran 11.79 with drag radials and flowmasters,on run # 24 the motor grenaded.
So the motor lasted for 5 3/4 miles.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:24 AM
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david vizard

YUP , I won't deny he wasn't asking for it
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Old 09-26-2009, 09:25 AM
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A lot of it depends on exhaust flow and the nitrous shot. If he had a 400 shot on it it would be feasable, BUT the block will not last too long. A 500hp sbc isn't anything too uncommon, put a really good flowing exhaust with a 400 shot on it and the power can be made. Holding it all together is another issue.
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Old 09-26-2009, 04:14 PM
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The editing in the book sucks. Its all over the place. but of you read the whole book you'll see that the same 350 nirous motor is tested in various forms with different cams and nitrous systems.

The version that made 900hp had a fairly big solid roller (custom reground for nitrous) cam and a dual stage nitrous system with direct port injection 1st stage + a plate system 2nd stage on a modified Vic Jr manifold.. The motor in this form made 450hp N/A, 780 some odd with the first stage direct port "fogger" system and 900 or so with both stages injecting together. Spark timing was only 20deg BTDC when using both stages.

The version with the Crane HMV278-2 cam #113801 w single stage plate system is good for about 600+hp depending on how much nitrous you feed it.
Its a good moderate hi perf street nitrous/supercharger cam. 278-294 222-234 114 LSA .467"-.494"
Likes a 1.6-1.5 rocker set. gives near equal .498"in -.494ex" valve lift
David Vizard recomends you install this cam (more) advanced as close to a 104 in C/L as possible, for best nitrous power. Thats about 8-10 advanced from "straight up". 114-114

What this does is aid in getting the large amount of exhaust gas volume created by the nitrous/fuel, out of the engine by opening the exhaust valve early. Exhaust will not burn twice.

If you read the the book and can get past the crappy editing, all the info is there. Its just mixed up.
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:53 PM
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Interesting. Thanks for the input fellows
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:19 AM
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No, i agree; i don't see how a stock block could last more than 40-50 runs regardless of what rpm it is run at. And i think in this case it would have to be at least 5000rpm.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:56 AM
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I didnt know he was an "Engine builder".. Worked with him a few times when i was at Comp Cams and never cam across as one. He did an Article i help him with on Valvertain Combiations for 302-351 fords.. mostly springs.. behive, ovate wire and standard double springs. I had to help him with way more than i should have if he was and engine builder.. i thought he just did tech articles to help people. With that being said.. I think the article should read under $5000

Last edited by wwilliams181; 11-03-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:38 AM
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Why do you think its BS. People do it all the time in drag cars. Engines never live all too long but i bet it would go two full race seasons without a hicup.

We see this every weekend at the track. You have the guys that spend thousands every week and the guys that run really fast cars for next to nothing. N2o is hard on pistons and big power is hard on rods and crank but it seemed like he covered all the bases forged crank good rods why would it come apart. The stock crap will take 500 hp.

I have a friend runs an old tubbed chevy II with 307's always builds his own motor in his garage and only uses free parts cause his wife wont let him spend a damn penny on his car. He runs super big cams and spins the engines as fast as he can. He just got a set of 2.02 heads. His 1.95 took him into the low 10's Its his personal lifes goal to run 8's with a 307. Sound silly, hes not that far away...

No reason to think a good builder cant put a 350 in the 900 range with cheaper and used parts. Now if he said he could do it in a N/A setup for cheap then i would be suprised. But with a shot of juice sure it will do it.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwilliams181 View Post
I didnt know he was an "Engine builder".. Worked with him a few times when i was at Comp Cams and never cam across as one. He did an Article i help him with on Valvertain Combiations for 302-351 fords.. mostly springs.. behive, ovate wire and standard double springs. I had to help him with way more than i should have if he was and engine builder.. i thought he just did tech articles to help people. With that being said.. I think the article should read under $5000
I think he teaches at a Ohio tech school where he is tenured.I think is costs about $2,700 to attend one of his seminars.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Why do you think its BS. People do it all the time in drag cars. Engines never live all too long but i bet it would go two full race seasons without a hicup.

We see this every weekend at the track. You have the guys that spend thousands every week and the guys that run really fast cars for next to nothing. N2o is hard on pistons and big power is hard on rods and crank but it seemed like he covered all the bases forged crank good rods why would it come apart. The stock crap will take 500 hp.

I have a friend runs an old tubbed chevy II with 307's always builds his own motor in his garage and only uses free parts cause his wife wont let him spend a damn penny on his car. He runs super big cams and spins the engines as fast as he can. He just got a set of 2.02 heads. His 1.95 took him into the low 10's Its his personal lifes goal to run 8's with a 307. Sound silly, hes not that far away...

No reason to think a good builder cant put a 350 in the 900 range with cheaper and used parts. Now if he said he could do it in a N/A setup for cheap then i would be suprised. But with a shot of juice sure it will do it.
loving this thread
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Why do you think its BS. People do it all the time in drag cars. Engines never live all too long but i bet it would go two full race seasons without a hicup.

We see this every weekend at the track. You have the guys that spend thousands every week and the guys that run really fast cars for next to nothing. N2o is hard on pistons and big power is hard on rods and crank but it seemed like he covered all the bases forged crank good rods why would it come apart. The stock crap will take 500 hp.

I have a friend runs an old tubbed chevy II with 307's always builds his own motor in his garage and only uses free parts cause his wife wont let him spend a damn penny on his car. He runs super big cams and spins the engines as fast as he can. He just got a set of 2.02 heads. His 1.95 took him into the low 10's Its his personal lifes goal to run 8's with a 307. Sound silly, hes not that far away...

No reason to think a good builder cant put a 350 in the 900 range with cheaper and used parts. Now if he said he could do it in a N/A setup for cheap then i would be suprised. But with a shot of juice sure it will do it.
I'm not saying the reciprocating assembly couldn't handle it if it was forged etc. What i'm concerned about is the stock block itself; i'm skeptical how long it would last at 900hp.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by against all odds View Post
I'm not saying the reciprocating assembly couldn't handle it if it was forged etc. What i'm concerned about is the stock block itself; i'm skeptical how long it would last at 900hp.
Well putting 900 to the ground for many miles would probably trash it. But with a shot that big you probably cant hit it right away so its going to make power mid track and beyond and hook up maybe even less. So its not going to be hard on the motor all the time. Most of the time he has a 400+ hp mouse and a big secret. It might run forever on the street how many times you going to push the button on the highway or hit a 500 shot coming out the walmart parking lot.

Ive seen many turbo cars run big numbers but they sometimes pop the first time you get some slicks and stick at the track. On the street they could spin street tires over all day long and not hurt the engine.

Yes blocks will come apart at the 1000 hp range but not all of the fixes are costly some are pretty cheap and could be in budget. Good cheap machine work is not easy to come by so maybe bull on that count.
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