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Old 03-08-2006, 03:52 AM
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Demon Carburetor Quality Control

Hi guys,

Has anyone noticed the decline in quality from Barry Grant
Demon Carbs?

I have been running a 650 Mighty Demon (double pump) on my
66 Mustang 289 for 3 years and it has been faultless.
(4-6 months sitting in the garage,starts first time,no leaks,no
misbehaving,perfect).

Now with the new 67 Camaro i purchased a new 850 Mighty Demon
for the ZZ502 crate engine and it had metal shavings everywhere,
bowls,squirters...
Decided to get some economy so i purchased a 750 Speed Demon
Secondary Vacuum on the recomendation from the Demon technical
dept in the States,thanks Eric.
When i took it out of the box i noticed a few deep scratches under the
base plate.
When it came to starting/running the engine for the first time,the sight
glass leaked fuel all over the intake.Fixed the prob within 5 mins,the rubber
seal was not pushed in far enough.
When we ran it on the dyno we realised that the secondaries were not
opening,so we wd-40 it and it still would not open.
We took it off the engine and saw that the shaft that opens the
secondary butterflies had a deep scratch that had caused a burr in the
metal,making it jam on the openings.
This was a brand new carb sealed in a box wrapped in plastic.

Took it back to VPW in Epping, Victoria (Australia's version of Jegs but
on a very small scale,4 phone operators instead of 200).
They told me that it would have to sent back to the States for BG
to check it and honour the warranty before they could supply me
with a new replacement,it would take a couple of weeks!!!!!!!
After exploding like a gorrilla on PCP and telling them that i was not
happy with that,they promised they would check it out themselves,
and if everything was kosher they would send me out a new one by courier
the next day.
(Keep in mind i had the dyno booked for that day,then had to re-book it
for the next day)
Well guess what.......it didn't come,so late in the afternoon i got my
mechanic to call and ask them what was happening with the carb.
VPW told us that they would be changing the base plate for a new one?
I have no idea why they just didn't give me a complete new replacement.
The carb was purchased on Friday and returned on Tuesday,it is not
like it had been sitting in a workshop for weeks or months waiting to be
installed on an engine.What is the point of me buying it from an authorized
dealer if the product has to sent back to the country where it was
assembled.I might as well have purchased it from Summit or Jegs.

What is the policy of faulty car parts in the USA.Do you get things
replaced or repaired.
I know there is a BG tech in this forum,please feel free to explain to me
how BG USA handles situations like this.

Oh,by the way the carb had a piece of paper in it stating,
"CHECKED AND PASSED BY INSPECTOR # 40".

INSPECTOR # 40 CAN YOU F@#*ING SPELL QUALITY CONTROL?

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Old 03-08-2006, 05:50 AM
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I had my Demon right at 3 years and was perfect right out of the box like your first one. Having never had to buy another one, I can't say if the quality has failed but very well could have. As far as having bad speed parts, some companies require the defective part sent back to them where they make the decision to repair or replace. I found the best service from the local auto part stores. Even though they will be higher, they bend over backwards to get you fixed up ASAP to avoid a bad reputation. They may not have the part in stock but can get it just as quick as the big mail order companies. When a company gets bigger, the customer service goes downhill as now they begin looking at profits and ways of costing costs.
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:29 AM
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I bought 2 BG carbs the first and last all at the same time. Long long story but they left a plug out and caused a gasket to fail 2 months after the engine was run. It has washed down a few cylinders on a 383 stroker. Warranty oh send it back we can put a plug in it for ya.

I will stick with Holley never had any kind of a problem like this with Holley.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:07 AM
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I think this specialty carb thing is just a bunch of bs. I've tried them all at one time or another and have had the best luck with Holley.
Bob
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:30 AM
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i had to send my 650 speed demon back in because of choke problems the carb is just reaching a year old when i got it back they said the electric choke was not functioning and the pump arm was rubbing the endplate. this also was a brand new out of the box carb. never messed with.

sending it back was a breeze they even called me to check what kind of set up i had in the car gears,timing,exhaust, ect. and they fixed it right up. the only thing is that they had it for a month but what can ya do.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:37 PM
Technical Support Barry Grant
 
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Demon Quality Control

67Camaro502,

We’ll try to answer your questions as best as possible. As far as warranties go any product that is claimed to be defective must be returned to the manufacture to determine what is actually causing the problem. This is done for multiple reasons: First if there is actually something defective we need to know about it to help prevent it from happening in the future. Next since we deal with products that must be tuned to the combination we need to make sure a problem is not a tuning, or calibration issue but an actual problem with the assembly of the product. If it’s a tuning issue, and the distributor swaps out the carburetor and the problem happens again because it needs to be tuned, and there is nothing wrong with the carburetor now we’re sitting with a used part that there is nothing wrong with, but have to eat. We also need to make sure it is the appropriate product for the application. We build our products more specific than other manufactures, which will give us a tighter window where they are going to work properly. The two most common issues we come up against are people purchasing the wrong carburetor for the application, or not tuning it properly. We did allow our distributors to exchange products in the past, but we would get back “new” products for replacement that had 6 or 7-year-old well used parts in the box. A manufacture can’t stay in business very long like!

As far as the metal shavings go. We addressed this about 6 months ago here on this board, and in our manufacturing facility. Not knowing how long VPW had the carburetor in stock, it would be impossible to say specifically. This is from the address back in September:

“We’ve found some carburetors (less than 1% of what we manufacture) with some debris in them, which is unacceptable. The goal is to have absolutely none, and to build the best product possible.

Since the majority of our products are made from billet components there is a higher chance of these types of issues than with cast components.

In the past a carburetor could have had trapped debris, and pass a flow test, but while getting bounced around during shipment the debris could become dislodged.

We have instituted the following changes to prevent these problems:

1) A vacuum system has been installed in all areas where drilling or machining is done to remove any debris from the parts.

2) A timed lock system has been installed on the pressure washer for the metering blocks to ensure they are flushed for the proper time.

3) Metering Blocks, and Main Bodies go through ultra sonic cleaning before final assembly.

4) Gaskets come from a sealed area to prevent debris from getting on the gaskets before the carburetors are assembled.

5) As always all carburetors are flow tested to proper specifications.

We appreciate the support, and feedback from our customers, and as always use this information to continually improve the quality, of our products, and services.”

As far as your 750 carburetor again not being given the opportunity to look at it, its impossible to say specifically what happened with the carburetor from when it was manufactured until it was shipped around the world, and placed on your engine. If you had mentioned to VPW that the carburetor had scratches in the baseplate before installing it, I’m sure they would have swapped it out for you, although we cannot speak for their specific policies. We also could not comment on when they did get you the replacement. They are a distributor for our products, but not a franchise of ours.


As far as the problems you had with your 220 fuel pump without knowing specifically how it was plumbed and what went wrong there is no way to intelligently comment. The only we can say for certain is that when the directions are followed these pumps work extremely well. The head of our engineering department as had one on his daily driver pickup truck for 9 years without a problem.




RPMs,

You’re more than welcome to your own opinion. When your carburetors were initially built we set them up the same way Holley® had been building that style of carburetor for over 40 years. We have since changed the design by putting a plug in the main body to prevent that problem from happening if a gasket was torn, but there was in no way anything defective with the carburetors.


Technical Support
Barry Grant, Inc.

We appreciate the support, and feedback from our customers,(both positive, and negative) and as always use this information to continually improve the quality, of our products, and services.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:41 PM
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Buying stuff from overseas is always dodgy to say the least, I have had good response from Summit but they are so big they can do it.
Even so I did have to wait for a replacement trans from them, they had to have the one I bought back in their hands first. They must have then gone back to B/M for a garantee replacement.
Your deal was with the supplier in Australia, I would have thought they would have to supply you with a replacement or money back.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:07 PM
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carb

This is just a observation, i do not mean to flame BG, but this is how it went in my shop....

I have worked on 6 or 7 different Bg carbs over the last 5 or 6 years. I am good with carbs and tuning and i'll tell you the bg carbs drove me nuts. I really enjoy fixing things but, where my problem with Bg is in the service department...Up untill Bg came along B&M held the title in my book of being the biggest pain in the ars to deal with to get help..... Now BG holds that title.... The only single reason i have not smashed every Bg product i own with a hammer is because of the tech guy that visits this site.... he has been nothing but respectful and helpful to me even when i am on a red neck rant about my BG problems.....

I now recommend holley carbs only for all my engine customers.... I don't think the tech guy on the phone realized that he would loose 8 or 10 carb sales a year from me when he hung the phone up on me.......But i really got the idea he didn't care....

I think the guy that visists this forum needs to be in charge at BG and train all the phone guys on how to be respectful to the customers, because you never know who is on the line with them....

I will personally tell you that 6 out of 6 carbs had problems.... I am not sure how that works into the 1 percent deal but for me it was 100 percent of the carbs i bought had problems....Then i have to tell the customer that i need to fix there brand new carb they just spent a pile of money on,,, It just got to be to much....

Again this is only what happened in my shop


Keith
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:15 PM
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I`ve owned a road demon jr. about 3 years now, ran it for 2. It had it`s share of problems. I did find metal shavings in the idle channels, the secondary`s would stick open or closed due to a high spot in the throttle bore. I removed all the shavings and sanded out the high spot, afterwards it`s been a good carb and has served me well. The only real complaint I have on it is downleg boosters on the primary side, they made low end response somewhat sluggish. I stopped fooling with Holley`s years ago, due to them being mostly made of cheap material and very poor quality control.
This go round I ordered a Sean Murphy stage 2 Quadrajet, waiting to see how it`s going to turn out.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:59 PM
Technical Support Barry Grant
 
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Keith,

I’ve acknowledged the problems, and issues you’ve had in the past. Now it has been at least a year or two since you’ve had the opportunity to try any of our products. Based on feedback (from you and others) we have made personal changes in our technical department, and added additional staff to help speed up response time. Also, as I’ve stated in the past, if you have the opportunity to run any of our products in the future, and have any questions to please let us know. We’ve never attacked anything you’ve said regardless of agreeing or not, in the past. That being said the offer still stands, if you have any questions about our products to please let us know.




Double Vision.

Your carburetor can have the boosters converted at any time if you’d like to try that.

Last edited by Tech @ BG; 03-08-2006 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:12 PM
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I have ran every style carb there is I think and really never had a problem other than tuning with any of them. I was always a big holley guy but the last 2 carbs I purchased were bg. Right now I am running a 750 speed demon mech. secondaries on my street/strip car and I dont' beleive I will ever own anything but a demon again.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:37 PM
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Demon carb quality control

Hello,
I am in the process of finishing up 2 projects, a 69 Camaro and a 70 Chevelle. Both of them are big block cars and I need to purchase intakes and carbs and my friends are also in the process of making carb purchases but are waiting to see how my experience with the BG carbs go. I have read a lot of bulletin boards and have heard horror stories about Bg carbs but I hear some good things also. I got some advice from some of the premier engine builders around and they all say the same" Have a professional set the carb up the first time and they will outperform every other carb out there" Which makes sense so that is why I am giving them a chance. I live in Lawrenceville, Georgia right outside of where they are manufactured so I am hoping if I have a problem I can go straight to their office to get it made right. To be fair, what are some horror stories about Holley Carbs, anyone out there? Could it be that Holley has been around so long and they have produced so many carbs that you don't hear as many bad things? In another ten years will it be the same for Barry Grant? It seems like there are so much more technology around with dual pattern cams and so forth that a call to the technical dept of a carb company is a must to help tailor the carb to fit your application? Sorry for the long post and wish me luck on my carb purchases.
thanks
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:47 PM
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RPMs,

You’re more than welcome to your own opinion. When your carburetors were initially built we set them up the same way Holley® had been building that style of carburetor for over 40 years. We have since changed the design by putting a plug in the main body to prevent that problem from happening if a gasket was torn, but there was in no way anything defective with the carburetors.

This is not my opion this is fact from one of your tech guys. He told me the plug was left out and were to look for it. He told me there had been quite a few of these and that this was not the first time he had seen it.

This carb had not been apart only the idle mixture and speed set on it.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM
RPMs,

You?re more than welcome to your own opinion. When your carburetors were initially built we set them up the same way Holley? had been building that style of carburetor for over 40 years. We have since changed the design by putting a plug in the main body to prevent that problem from happening if a gasket was torn, but there was in no way anything defective with the carburetors.

This is not my opion this is fact from one of your tech guys. He told me the plug was left out and were to look for it. He told me there had been quite a few of these and that this was not the first time he had seen it.

This carb had not been apart only the idle mixture and speed set on it.

Who was the technician you spoke to? Hard to see how a problem could be diagnosed if the carburetor has never been apart?
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:05 PM
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i bought a 575 speed demon for my 66 elcamino and had problems right from the get go. i also bought a brand new billet hei at the same time. i could not tune it at all. anything i tried resulted in the opposite of what supposed to happen. it would either idle too high, or be running way to rich at idle with a normal idle. The bowl gaskets got completely gas soaked and id have little red puddles of gas on my intake after sitting over night and this started on the first night of installing the carb. everyone in awe of my beautiful carb would ask how it ran, id say well im still triing to tune it blah blah blah, then they would see the red stains on the intake, also brand new. after a backfire i had it was running pig rich so i took the carb off and had new gaskets and a power valve installed at a drag shop in town. he also found that the red screw in slug on the vac sec can was cross threaded and the slug was leaking vacuum, so he fixed that also (hmm i wonder why i couldnt tune it?). i put everything on and it seemed to run fine until one cold night i attempted to start it and it backfires again, then all off a suddin smoke starts pouring from my hood, it caught my air cleaner on fire and burned my hood, and my hands in an attempt to put it out to save my car. so now im left with one nice chared 575 speed demon with about $1000 spent in total on it, that at one point i was so excited for the day it arrived, bring it home, watch the video and so on, it was a huge investment for me. now its pretty much completely discouraged me from my car which is finally running pretty good with the carb actually the best the engine has run yet. ppl warned me about buying a demon, including the shop that sold it to me. i sould have went with the street avenger.

well that was nice! thanks for letting me vent..
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