Designing my own scratch built Rat Rod, need guidance on where to start - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:35 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Hey Mike,

I couldn't get that PDF file to load up. Anybody else having a problem? Do you know of any alternative route to get that?

    Advertisement
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:39 PM
Nightfire's Avatar
Young & Idealistic
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild an engine
Last journal entry: 1950 Fargo - losing hope
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Posts: 1,192
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
Hey Mike,

I couldn't get that PDF file to load up. Anybody else having a problem? Do you know of any alternative route to get that?
Yup, send me your adress and I can ship it to you on paper. It takes a while to load and you need Adobe Acrobat reader.



Mike
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:48 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfire
Yup, send me your adress and I can ship it to you on paper. It takes a while to load and you need Adobe Acrobat reader.
I have Acrobat and I have a pretty fast satellite internet connection. If I sit and wait long enough will it eventually load? (That seems easier that having you mail it). Maybe I'll try it again with some more patience. If I can't get it I'll PM you with my address.

[added later]

Got it...you just have to be willing to wait it out. It will eventually load up.

Thanks again Mike.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.

Last edited by cboy; 12-21-2005 at 08:02 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2005, 08:05 PM
Nightfire's Avatar
Young & Idealistic
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild an engine
Last journal entry: 1950 Fargo - losing hope
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Posts: 1,192
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a pretty fast cable internet connection too and it takes close to 3 minutes for it to load. It also depends how many people are trying to open it at the same time. It's not a very fast server where the plans are hosted on so part of the problem is on their end too. They're old CCR plans, VERY usefull. I'm building that frame step by step come spring.

Jerry, this is all you need to get started on your body


It's on ebay right now for $300, but like I said the 20's Dodge cowls go for way cheaper. Start collecting cheap parts now. If you find a cheap engine grab it, if you find a good front axel grab it. Slowly collect untill you can put it all together. Better to have all the parts before you build the frame, that way you can build the frame to match the parts and not customize the parts to fit your frame. If you're gonna scratch build a frame might as well build it to accomodate your parts as easy as possible.



Mike
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2005, 08:05 PM
Nightfire's Avatar
Young & Idealistic
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild an engine
Last journal entry: 1950 Fargo - losing hope
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 26
Posts: 1,192
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Whoa Dewie you must've just added that. Glad it worked for ya


Mike
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:04 AM
h0trod389's Avatar
youll see me sideways
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: N0r*cAL
Age: 38
Posts: 476
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Build your own!!!

i advise that you is save up a few beans and buy a chassis design book.
you will realize that 1 dimention is only part of the grand scheme of things.

ive done hack jobs on mini trucks that we enjoyed cruizin on the freeway @ 70 MPH and dump the frame on the ground, kinda fun, but dont try it at home!
ive done repair work on the ever so ugly "camaro clip" install on older truck/car chassis of the 40's n 50's

ive also seen a alot of frames built from scratch.

in my opinion is the best and safest way to begin any project. that way YOU can make it how YOU want it and not have to deal with hacking the frame up, adding to it, making it heavier and in some cases weaker.

im not dogging the people like cboy that use other frames in no way, i actually think his cars are bad a$5! and some of his documentation has helped me in ways that will stay with me forever.

learn what to do and what not to do from every car you see.

im building my first "ladder" frame from scratch. ive got
$212 in 2 x 4 box tubing
$100 in 2x2 & 2x3
$50 in consumables to build the frame.
right now its a rolling chassis (on casters)
i dont have any clear shots of just the chassis, but pics of my olds can be seen at www.lemanz.net/1930olds.htm
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:27 AM
farna's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: AMC V-8s Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Batesburg-Leesville, SC
Age: 52
Posts: 1,635
Wiki Edits: 14

Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Under $400 to build a frame with all new materials, minus suspension, is pretty reasonable. Since this is to be a open wheel/front roadster, a T style frame would be easy to build. Two straight rails, kick-up at rear axle. Front axle is mounted off the front cross member, no kick up required. Check Speedway Motors catalog (order one at www.speedwaymotors.com, it's worth the $5 or so as a reference), Art Morrison, and other frame shops for pics. Pretty simple!

I have to agree that getting a good mini-truck frame to start with is a good idea if building something off that type of frame. If it's used at or near stock height (no or minimal frame mods, lower like you would the mini truck to begin with) it should be more useable. I have to agree that tryingto hack one up to make it fit isn't a good idea. But as noted, if it's to be open front that suspension will be ugly! It won't look as bad with a grille shell in front of it, but you still have those big a-arms and such hanging out there. Full model A type fenders would help hide the suspension from all but a front view. If the chassis needed hiding the body could be channeled over it if the frame isn't to wide.

I still think it's doable, but not with an open front fenderless vehicle -- not a good looking one anyway. The vehicle would have to be planned around the chassis, you can't decide to build a type of vehicle then try to make it work on that chassis. Maybe a later 30s car with "fat fenders" would work a lot better... a 36 or so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:36 AM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,238
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 38
Thanked 128 Times in 124 Posts
If one can bring himself to do a custom type body then working out a design like the one I posted should work out..BTW that particular car is a Frank Kurtis design and he built about 25 of them back in 1954..I used it as a guide to build my project car..

OMT
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: guntersville, al
Posts: 8
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DatRod

Dean Moon back in the 80s had a short manual on taking a datsun or similar pickup and making into a hot rod. i have a copy somewhere stashed away.
remove the body and cut off the horns that the body attaches to and you have a narrow model A style frame. the engine needs to be moved rearward for the right look but the whole concept is quite easy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:46 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Long term storage preparation Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fox Valley area, Wisconsin
Age: 23
Posts: 63
Wiki Edits: 26

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T-Buc...QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like somebody sells those frames already pre-built. I still will try to see if I can make my own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:52 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by huffhuff
Dean Moon back in the 80s had a short manual on taking a datsun or similar pickup and making into a hot rod. i have a copy somewhere stashed away. remove the body and cut off the horns that the body attaches to and you have a narrow model A style frame. the engine needs to be moved rearward for the right look but the whole concept is quite easy.
The concept is indeed easy...it's the implementation that's the bear. Unfortunately, you still have a rather massive front suspension to deal with. The Datsun has the same a-arm set up as the Mazda shown in the pics above. If you can dig up the manual and can post any of the pictures they show, it would be interesting to see what Moon came up with. When I see one done nicely and inexpensively...I'll believe. But speaking from experience, making one of these frames look right under an open wheel car is no easy task. Possible, yes. Easy, no. Especially on a budget.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2005, 11:26 PM
Chopt 48's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toppenish, washington
Posts: 452
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I have to vote with the guys who suggest building your own frame. I have not priced steel tubing lately but you should to build a frame for under 100.00.
You might try this, take some 2x4's (wood) and lay out your frame Used wood is ok, after all it will be a rat rod. Anyhow cut and fit that to decide how things are going to set up. Mistakes are a lot cheaper and you can stand back and look at it and see if the ideas work or won't work.
When you do cut your steel tubing mark out all of the sections on the tubing before cutting so that you can have the least waste of metal. This way you can save a few inches when you cut the angles for the kickups.
As for a front axle an early Ford I beam would probably be the easy way to go but there are a few other methods that don't look all that bad Maas makes some strong but not all that spendy tube front axles ans suspension pieces. Another idea is to build batwings that bolt to a 40's / 50's pickup front axle to turn it into a cross spring axle. I don't have any photos available on a disk at this time to be able to show them but the examples that I have seen were pretty clean.
I'd go with a mopar rear to match the engine. The 8-3/4 is easy to find and plenty strong for most rigs.
Like one of the other guys said, it is easy to build your own body. Swap meet cowls arn't all that expensive or make your own you might even cut down an older pickup cab. like out of the 40's or 50's Just don't pay much of anything for one if you do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2005, 07:48 AM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopt 48
Like one of the other guys said, it is easy to build your own body.
Easy? Id hate to give any younger rodders out there the impression that building a body is just a short walk in the park.

I suppose if you don't care what the body looks like when you are done it might be easy. Or possibly Chopt48 (like a couple of other guys on the forum) have enough experience that body building has become fairly routine - and thus "easy" to them. But easy has never been a term I, as an amateur, would ever use to describe building a body. Challenging, yes. Time consuming, yes. Fulfilling, yes. Doable, yes. But easy? Don't count on it. If you don't come prepared with lots of patience, lots of time, and lots of decent tools, you are in for disappointment.

Dewey
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2005, 09:53 AM
Vintage Plymouth's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northwoods, WI
Age: 26
Posts: 6
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey there, I live in Wisconsin too and found myself in your situation a few years ago. I wanted to build a rat rot to drive to high school, but considering I'm half way through my senior year right now, I don't think that will happen. I have some great ideas for you though, and even some parts you could have. Have you looked at the 2wd ranger front ends? I think with a little modification, they would look almost like an old style axle and wishbone setup. PM me, we'll talk more if you like.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:11 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Hey Vintage, glad to see another "northwoods wisconsin" rodder here on HR.Com.

You point out an interesting option for the "budget" minded builder. While I have yet to find a Ranger independent I-Beam front suspension that looks right, the early F-150's (up to 1979) look somewhat traditional (especially head on) in my opinion. They are not as easy as a straight axle in terms of mounting and geometry, but once they are set up the ride is superior to the straight axle. I am using these IFS systems in both my '32 pickup (full fendered) and in my '32 roadster (fenderless). You can see how they were built and how they look finished by browsing through my journal.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Tags
build plans, build thread

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
stroke to rod ratio jacobm99 Engine 28 12-16-2013 05:46 PM
Wanted: Rat rod definition Madd Syntst Hotrodders' Lounge 41 12-12-2011 04:32 AM
383 vs 350 TheCiscoKid Engine 86 05-03-2008 03:10 PM
327 in 88 Truck pete379 Engine 101 01-19-2006 09:03 PM
longest rods in std deck 454 bbc?? deuce_454 Engine 11 01-30-2004 10:06 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.