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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2006, 09:30 AM
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Brute force and ignorance be us... I am planning to move the engine back about 30 inches on the toyota frame. Got an 300 ford engine and toyota frame for 200.00 so far. The torsion bar suspension looks ok, at least to me, and this one is for fun and as you say learning.. I scored a decent body, a 61 Falcon Ranchero for the "real" hot rod project...

I have a journal going, so you can see how stubborn i get...and hpw much trouble i get into. Thanks for your input... The real hot rod will have to wait until i can score a touring tub.. These t-buckets are way to small for my big butt.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2006, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willowbilly3
Just spending a couple hundred on a good cowl and maybe backhalf will make a much cooler looking ride than you can ever hope to fabricate.
willowbilly,

While I agree that buying a cowl and backhalf might be easier than building them, I have to differ with you about ever hoping to fabricate something as cool as what you might buy. This scratch built body which was discussed in a recent thread is a prime example. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=100556 I don't have the link in front of me but Randy Ferguson's hand built Willys is another prime example. While these may not be everybody's dream rods, they both have their share of cool going for them. And clearly they are scratch builds.

Also, cowls and backhalfs in decent condition are no longer cheap, at least not for the more popular makes and models. My personal opinion is that more and more rodders will be opting for scratch building in the future simply due to the cost factor. Once people get beyond the idea that body fabrication is some sort of voodoo science and start experimenting on their own (with a little help from guys like Randy who are willing to share their knowledge), I think you'll see a growing parade of very cool scratch built bodies coming out of back yard garages.

Sure, if you've got the bucks, buy a pristine cowl and backhalf. Better yet, just buy an entire car in excellent shape. But if you are on a tighter budget, don't underestimate the potential for hand fabricating something very very cool.

Dewey
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2006, 02:12 PM
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I likes it, my precious
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2006, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
willowbilly,

While I agree that buying a cowl and backhalf might be easier than building them, I have to differ with you about ever hoping to fabricate something as cool as what you might buy. This scratch built body which was discussed in a recent thread is a prime example. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=100556 I don't have the link in front of me but Randy Ferguson's hand built Willys is another prime example. While these may not be everybody's dream rods, they both have their share of cool going for them. And clearly they are scratch builds.

Also, cowls and backhalfs in decent condition are no longer cheap, at least not for the more popular makes and models. My personal opinion is that more and more rodders will be opting for scratch building in the future simply due to the cost factor. Once people get beyond the idea that body fabrication is some sort of voodoo science and start experimenting on their own (with a little help from guys like Randy who are willing to share their knowledge), I think you'll see a growing parade of very cool scratch built bodies coming out of back yard garages.

Sure, if you've got the bucks, buy a pristine cowl and backhalf. Better yet, just buy an entire car in excellent shape. But if you are on a tighter budget, don't underestimate the potential for hand fabricating something very very cool.

Dewey
Oh, I am not saying it can't be done, just that a first timer should start with some basic shapes, like a cowl and maybe a back half. You can still build it from there and learn a lot about tin bending in the process.
My body is what I consider hand built because I have massaged and modified every part of it, even if Henry did stamp them out. And it's all hammer welded too, but I wouldn't send someone in that direction for a first build.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2006, 03:51 PM
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Also, backhalf-$60 from the HAMB, cowl-$150 at swap meet (too much, you can buy a good sedan cowl for lots less) doors $35 from ebay. Also I have a new back panel from Nedeland's for $75. that's $300, plus a bunch of time I spent making those parts into what you see.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2006, 04:13 PM
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Interesting project Willowbilly3 that fits the concept of what I said several pages back.

Someone mentioned the positioning of the radiator, grill shell in a previous post. I have to agree, if it is an open wheel car I would suggest positioning the radiator first, both for location and height and building the car to it.
Personally I wouldn't want it forward of the centerline of the front wheels and it shouldn't sit up higher than the cowl.
I see by Willowbilly's post that swap meet prices have gone up since I bought the (Oakland?) cowl for 10.00 and a 35 chev commercial grill shell for 10.00. The frame for the project should be a late 20's early 30's chev using a dropped axle that I scored at an auction and 16 in chev wires. the back of the car is pieced together from left over sheetmetal from behind the shed.
Engine (who knows, I don't have it yet) but probably the 250 6 out of the 48.
The look will resemble an early 2 seat indy style car.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2006, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopt 48
I see by Willowbilly's post that swap meet prices have gone up since I bought the (Oakland?) cowl for 10.00
ill give ya 300 for the cowl!!!!
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2006, 07:49 AM
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I just gave away a nice back panel of unknown origen. I got it for free at a swap meet along with another 20s era NOS door skin. If you are willing to use non Ford tin it can be found for cheap or free. A couple years ago I saw a cowl, hood and fenders at a junk shop in Oregon. I turned my pickup and trailer around, went back and the guy gave me the stuff to haul it off. It was a rust free cowl that I think was a 20s Rickenback. I saved the dash for my rod and passed the rest on.
I saw a nice complete front half of an old Oakland army ambulance at the Decatur swap last year. I debated long and hard whether to pay $50 for it all and decided to pass. It was solid and straight, still had the original paint and army numbers on it. The stuff is out there, you just have to get out and find it.
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Old 03-31-2006, 08:56 AM
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for the past 5 years, ive been scouring swap meets, farm land, levy roads, scrap yards and craigslist for a chance at some pre 30's Oakland/Pontiac
tin.
ive had very minor luck. i found a post on craigslist for some assorted chevy/pontiac tin, but the guy never e-mail'd me back.

i did however find a whole drivetrain for a 1932 pontiac sedan.
engine,tranny,rearend,front axle, steering box and other little items.

right now the engine n tranny lay between the rails of my 1930 olds.
guess if i cant find a genuine pontiac ill have to settle for a BOP.

the search still continues, in hopes to one day being able to find a 1919 oakland.

if anyone knows of any Oakland/Pontiac parts on the west coast could ya drop me a line?

THANKS!
Brian
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2006, 10:32 AM
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Designing my own scratch built Rat Rod, need guidance on where to start

h0trod389, I went looking to see if I could find some pics of a 1919 Oakland on the web and I came up with this restored one for sale. I don't think this is what you are looking for but I thought that maybe you could trace the owner through it and see if he has any parts you may be looking for.

http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails...M06&CarID=r119
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2006, 10:32 AM
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Designing my own scratch built Rat Rod, need guidance on where to start

I think anything can be done, but use your brain and make it safe, dont cut corners. What you are doing is how this hotrodding all got started anyway. The very first hotrod was not a show car thats for sure, and was kind of scary to even want to drive. But look how far we have come now. So take your time and do a good job.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:16 PM
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I have seen (and rode in) a few scratch built Model-T's.

The first one had a Toyota Running gear, mechanical-brakes, a 10-bolt rearend, and a VW front-axle. The frame was built from steel-pipe, and it was a rough ride. But the body was the cheapest part, as it was entirely built from wood. The entire tub, floor, and firewall was just thick plywood, it got some attention, but was not authentic. But it was an interesting car. The crappy frame broke apart on the way home, and the rearend fell off, but it had been welded pretty shoddy.

The second one was not really even a T-bucket, but was just a parade car built for the Shriners. The body was big enough for two to sit in, but very cramped, and was not very tall at all. It was powered by a 8hp lawnmower engine, and had mechanical brakes. The body was all aluminum, and you could flex it with your hands, so I wouldn't want to wreck it. You could use the same stuff to make a really primitive roadster body, with a pipe or wooden structure, that would weigh next to nothing, just don't get hit.

You really don't think about the little details when your riding in one of these things, your just there. If you want to be traditional and authentic, go for it, but if you just want a roadster, I'd put together whatever parts you can to get a decent chassis, then sit your own body on it.

But by the time you make your own body, you could probably save alot of work, and pay $50 more for a Fiberglass Body (www.up22.com is one option) So you could actually say its a Model-T, and not just some kind of 20-ish roadster.

-GF
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2006, 10:38 PM
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Thanks for the link. But here is my problem with T Buckets. The measuements they give are; BODY (UPPER OPENING SIZE: 39 1/2 X 40 1/2) (o.a.l.: 47-1/2")

That's pretty small. I'm not a real big guy, but i'm 18" across the butt, and my legs are 42 inches long to my back bone sitting down. I dont want to spend a lot of money, and 300.00 is a lot of money to me, to get a body that i have to scrunch up in, and look like a monkey on a stick, hanging on to a steering wheel that is vertical.

The toyota body is 60 " wide outside and if i keep a normal seat height, i can stretch out my legs and drive for a few hours without cramps..And i'm in North Carolina. It's not nice like Southern Cal. Even for a summer car, i'm going to need a windshield and some sort of weather resisitance. I was thinking of using some of those plastic "racing" seats, i have them in my doodle bug and you can stand an hour or two in them.

I dont really want to work to some "Classic" idea of what a hot rod must be. I just want a roadster that costs about a grand, and looks sort of cool, and will let me drive around and run errands in the summer for cheap gas.

I'm too old to pick up babes, (my wife objects) and i dont have enough hair to want to be "Kookie", so i guess i'll just fake it. Don't need to go 200 mph either, just to Sonic for Onion rings and a diet coke...

I could have a midlife crisis and get a miata, but then i wouldnt learn to weld. And the monthly payments would be more than i'm spending on three projects.

Sorry to waste all of your time with this rant, but i'm learning to type too..
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2006, 11:30 PM
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Verticle steering wheels always seemed like something that was just for breaking your ribs anyway....But using your Toyota as a roadster isn't a bad idea, I started looking at my Ranger and realized that with the roof cut off, it wouldn't look too much different from a 30-ish car. The front-end would be a problem, but with a stepside bed It wouldn't be too bad.

You could always section a 70's or 80's large truck cab, like an International or something, to be narrower, cut the roof off, cut the posts down, and use a plexi-glass windsheild. Its all flat metal with a few curves, and when compared to cutting up a 50's Chevy pick-up, seems like a better idea.

These bodys share the same "REALLY SQUARE" design as some 30's cars. And you could have opening doors, plus they are all over the place, I can pass by a Equiptment yard around here, and see like 5 of them just sitting around with the Drivetrain missing.

Here is a crappy picture of an acutal cab, just to give you an idea. All stock.



okay..then it gets chopped a little...



then here it is sectioned a couple of inches...



and if you decided to go topless...(looks kind of crappy, but the idea is there)



umm...yeah.

-GF
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2006, 11:56 PM
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yep... i think an older semi tractor cab with a split windshield has real possibilities...love to see one of those giant grills cut down to 18" inches high...hehehehe.. Thanks for the ideas.. I'm going to run this toy out, and see if it can be made to work... Looking at the 51 chevey hood, and it looks pretty good for a lakester/roadster. Have to make a grill...Looking at those old oldsmobile split grill. if they were set up on end, they might look cool..
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