For those of you who don't know I'm starting on a Deuce 3 Window. Now I've never done a deuce before and our very own expert (Deuce) offered to provide me with some "tips" on some of the unique stuff you really need to know when building a deuce frame.

We've been carrying on this conversation in the moderators forum but since Deuce is a walking encyclopedia of 32 Ford knowledge we felt the general population of the board could benefit from this conversation.

The posts below that are marked with: Originally posted by Deuce are of course Deuce's expertise that I have re-posted here. Hope those of you who read this thread will be able to take advantage of the mass of experience he has when it comes to early Fords.

Originally posted by Deuce


I would have put these photos on a PM ... but PM's do not have photos ...
Behind the small hole is where the VIN number is stamped. And the three bolt holes are ... two for the firewall feet and one closest to the outside of the rail is for the body.



Per your PM ...
On original frames ... there are three bolts for the firewall feet ... the front one and the rear one are for the feet and the center one actually is for the body. But the body is NOT installed in the above photo



The center one ( for the body bolt ) is 46 and 7/16ths inches from the front start of the rail.



In the above photo, the body jig is bolted into the first firewall foot bolt hole. The second one ( is the bolt hole for the body ) the third is for a firewall foot and the fourth and on back is for the body.

Disregard the small hole in front of the three firewall feet holes ... it was a manufacturing guide hole.

This photo shows a steel Deuce body without the correct firewall feet. BUT you can see the little metal body tab/hook with the bolt thru it going into the frame.



The firewall is recessed for the HEMI ...



This photo has a little better shot of the body bolt ... going thru the tab into the frame.

Here is a photo of just a pair of firewall feet off a firewall ... with the three holes showing.


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On a fiberglass body, I do not know if all the above holds true. It does on a 32 3W Wescott ... and a 32 3W Gibbons but I have never been around a Dave Koorey 32 3W body.

NOT a slam ... just the truth
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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world

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Last edited by Deuce : Today at 08:25 AM. Reason: correct addition numbers

Thanks. I'll take a close look tomorrow and see where the firewall will lie based on those bolt holes. You said the center hole is 36 7/16" from the front of the frame but the plans indicate that would be near 46". Did you really mean 36 7/16" or is it 46 7/16"?

One other question. Is the firewall even with the front or center bolt hole? It's hard to tell in the pics. From what I can see it looks like the firewall should be about even with the second hole (where the body mounts). Is that correct??

Originally posted by Deuce



46 and 7/16" .... my bad addition ... ( I have corrected in in the original post )

Originally ... the stock firewall sticks out a little for foot room. It sticks out almost to the first bolt hole ...



My 3W firewall is recessed a little ... but the toe board is in the same place and same angle. See where the edge of the firewall was ... it cuts back at a 45 degree angle ... and is now 1 inch recessed ??


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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world

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Last edited by Deuce : Today at 08:27 AM. Reason: notification of addition correction ...

Did some mock up and measuring today. Looks like the firewall falls pretty close to the stock location. The front edge is exactly 46 7/8" and the recessed section is 48 3/8". Here's a pic with one frame rail mocked in place.



The firewall has basically a 2" recess.....








I was also surprised at how well the body fit the frame as can be seen here....



Now I have to measure the motor to see if I need to move the front crossmember forward any.
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Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com

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Last edited by Centerline : 02-26-2008 at 03:43 PM.

Originally posted by Deuce




I would measure the width of the body ... where it sits down over the chassis ... and adjust the width of the frame so that you do not get a big gap between the frame and the body overlap. MOST fiberglass bodies are actually wider in that area than original bodies. This is so they can slip over most any chassis made by most any chassis builder.

If you install both frame rails, you could then measure the distance for the front spreader bar and the rear spreader bar, then adjust accordingly. If you like the way the body is sitting ... you could also mark the body holes now before you box the rails. You could also create a new hole for the firewall bolt and just fill the one that you are almost on. and the other firewall foot hole.

LOOKS like you are making good progress Wish we were closer geographically... the chassis going together is one of the most FUN parts of a build IMHO.
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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world

Measuring the width of the body is a great idea. I would not have thought of that but it makes perfect sense. Especially when at this point the frame can easily be custom fit to the body.

Will be welding in the blind nuts for the body mounts tomorrow. I finally bit the bullet and purchased my own take for my new Mig so that's all set up now and ready to go. You would not believe how difficult it was to find a can of 3M weldable primer around here. The closest can was over an hour away. Back in Dayton my local paint jobber carried that stuff in stock. Did finally get a can though so the inside of the frame can be primed before boxing.

I also ordered the boxing plates from ASC and they should be here the first part of next week. The "FUN" is about to finally begin!

Originally posted by Deuce






I have seen as much as 3/4 of a inch between the body overhang and the frame rails. the Body a little too wide and the chassis a little too narrow adds up to 3/4 of a inch or more GAP.

IF you are going hoodless ... to show off the HEMI ... you can actually slide the body back a small amount ... and move the crossmember forward so as to not to cut the firewall. I would also consider moving the engine over to the right 3/4 of a inch ( maybe a little more ) to gain room for the steering. Common practice @ Detroit. Mine is over 3/4 ths of a inch. Just be careful not to get the fuel pump into the frame rail ... ( mine is real close ... )
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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world

It will be hood-less. I don't believe I'll have any steering shaft problems because the starter is being moved to the passenger's side plus I'll be using roadster style headers so as long as the steering shaft clears the engine, and I believe it will, no problems. I'm also using an old Nova manual steering box (which is very similar to the Vega in size and mounting except its just not aluminum).

I'll probably be using an electric fuel pump. The stock early hemi unit was driven by a concentric off the front of the cam and mounted on the passenger's side of the front cover which could interfere with the BBC water pump. Besides, its much easier to replace an electric pump if it goes out than a stock early hemi unit. Plus, with the electric pump I can run a distribution block on the firewall to the three Rochester 2G's which was commonly done in the early '60s.

Originally posted by Deuce




I found a better photo of a original firewall and V8 ... for reference

You can see how the foot wells extrend into the under hood area and also see the cowl band bolt that goes thru the firewall foot.
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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world

Originally posted by Deuce










On my 3W, if I had not moved it over ... I would have had trouble
I would imagine a HEMI is wider than a little SBC.
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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world

Great information Centerline and Deuce !!Thanks

Originally posted by Deuce





Thanks ... I try

One more suggestion ... when installing the rear axle, I like them moved back 3/4 to 1 inch towards the rear of the car.



Every original 32 Ford I have ever seen has the rear wheels located too far forward in the fender. In the above photo, you can see mine are dead in the center of the fender ... that's why mine is moved to the rear a little. My roadster is the same way ... centered in the fender.

The extra wheelbase has to help the ride a little ...
On a fenderless 32 ... moving the axle forward 1 inch and the rear axle back 3/4 to 1 inch gives you a 108 inch wheelbase.

For now, My next 32 chassis will be for a fenderless 32 ... and It will moved the wheelbase to 108. The extra 1 inch in the front will help with the Big Block Chevy and the rear will be back to center the big tires in the wheelwells. NO Victoria for me so I am planning another roadster ... a Hiboy to duplicate my late 60's/early 70's ride



EVEN on a fenderless car with big tires ... the tires fit the fender opening better and look better IMHO if the wheelbase is moved back 3/4 to a 1 inch.
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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world

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Last edited by Deuce : 02-28-2008 at 10:03 PM.

Spent yesterday and today cleaning up the frame rails and welding in the blind nuts. I had to fill the first three holes (the alignment hole plus both firewall bolt holes) because the DK body firewall is designed in such a manor that there just is no way to bolt that section down. The first body bolt hole is where you start bolting the body to the frame. I don't know for sure but I strongly suspect this would be similar in most glass bodies since they really have no need for the firewall mounts as the firewall is molded into the body rather than a separate piece.



Also primed the inside of the rails with a good quality weldable primer. I suppose you could skip that step but why would you want to...



I set the rails (based on the blueprints) to so I can see if they are twisted or bent. As it turns out one rail is slightly twisted in the front which will be an easy fix when I weld in the boxing plates. The other is fine. With the middle of the frame set at the proper distances the front is about 3/8" narrow and the rear about 1/2" wide. Both easily adjusted at this point.

Thanks for the hint about moving the rear back an inch. I'll be running fenderless but it will be nice to have the tires centered in the wheel opening.

Originally posted by Deuce

On my original frame rails, the right siderail was low about 3/8th to 1/2 of inch in the area where the firewall goes on the rail. Could not get the right side door to fit just right and the right side fender was a problem too. Found this out after I had the coupe back together.

Had to tie the chassis down to hooks in the floor and jack the rail up a little. Took a lot of pressure but finally got the rail up a little ... and the door fits a LOT better and now the fender fits better also.
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Going 33 and 1/3 RPMS in a IPOD world