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Old 03-29-2004, 03:09 PM
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DFI / turbo setup

I am in the process of building the bottom end of my turbo project. It is going to be a 377ci fuel injected twin turbo (400 block w/ forged 350 crank)

I'm having trouble choosing a fuel injection setup that will handle the ~700 HP. I need something that is durable, can flow alot of air, and has great software or ECU.

at the moment, i'm leaning towards the accel setup, but still dont have any information as far as tried and true etc.

So for those running an aftermarket EFI kit, which one are you running, how do you like it, and have you had any problems? Also, do you like the fuel management software that came with it/you use?

Thanks
Sean

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Old 03-29-2004, 05:17 PM
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your definatly going to need an after market ECU, new fuelpump, and hella large injectors. i suggest looking around for what a 700 hp motor requires as far as fuel and air flow. DFI is gonna be expensive. i would go with a TBI. your gonna be forcing the air in anyway. and they make some monster TBI units. you could even use a carb but then you'd be f'ing with it everyday.
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 84_sportcoupe
your definatly going to need an after market ECU, new fuelpump, and hella large injectors. i suggest looking around for what a 700 hp motor requires as far as fuel and air flow. DFI is gonna be expensive. i would go with a TBI. your gonna be forcing the air in anyway. and they make some monster TBI units. you could even use a carb but then you'd be f'ing with it everyday.
Do you honestly think you can flow that much air through a TBI motor? All the TBI units ive seen only support up to 350HP.



If TurboS10 reads this, I have a question for you. Does the ECU that comes with the Edelbrock setup allow for forced induction? Also, does the Holley Commander setup allow for that? I think i remember reading that it did... but the downside is i have heard mixed reviews about holley's setup.

Thanks
Sean
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Old 03-29-2004, 09:48 PM
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Hey Sean,

I am running edelbrock proflo hardware for the most part. I am running an onboard 2.5 bar MAP and 50lb delphi injectors in place of the original stuff. 50lb injectors are all you will need as well. You will also need a large pump. I am using a Holley 67gph pump. It will flow more than the injectors and should be good to 800HP.

I am running a DIY-EFI ECU because it fit my budget much better than the aftermarket stuff. The edelbrock ECU will not work with boost without reprogramming and the one guy I found that did it told me to ditch the edelbrock ECU.....he had as well and did not work on them anymore. I think that the holly ecu might work with boost, but you should really talk to the manufacturor. I am not at all familiar with it. If budget is more of a concern, the megasquirtAVR is great. It is actually called genboard and is put out by the recently renamed Versitile Engine Managment group. It is a group that started with an offshoot of the megasquirt project, but has grown to its own animal. The developers are wonderful and the power of the controllers are just awesome. If you are interested, let me know and I can give you more info.

Later,

Chris
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Old 03-29-2004, 11:11 PM
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Thanks for all the info. I'm looking for an ECU that I can hook to a laptop to change settings, I don't really like the idea of using an onblard control unit, they are sort of limited in my opinion. What type of setup is the megasquirtAVR? If you have some more info that would be great.

Also what throttle boddy are you using? I'm leaning towards more than a 1000 cfm TB, what do you think?

Thanks
Sean
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Old 03-30-2004, 06:30 AM
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Yep, the MSAVR is more programmable than anything off the shelf. Since it is an open source controller you can change anything. We just had a guy use it to control his nitrous sytem.....something it was not designed for. Here is a link to the main page:

http://www.squirrelpf.com/msavr/

If you have any questions(I am sure you will) after looking at the site, let me know.

As for the throttle body, 1000cfm is more than adequate. That is 1000cfm at 1bar absolute.


Chris
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Old 03-30-2004, 01:00 PM
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Thanks for the link, i bookmarked it for future reference... read as much as i could, then i think my brain filled up for the day LOL

Theres alot of confusing information on that site, maybe someone should build an information page with all the basics, then link to the existing pages, to make it easier for the newbies like me.

So when that setup is complete, you use a keyboard to modify settings that you read off the LCD you chose? Or can you hook up a laptop and use a graphical interface?

Thanks
Sean
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Old 03-30-2004, 01:59 PM
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The controller does both......the LCD and Keyboard is nice because it does not require batteries and is powered from the board. It will always work......but is not as nice and it takes some memory or a reference card to work with. At the current time alot of values are in hex, also. If you get into one of these projects you get used to hex real quick, though.

At the current time Megatune and Megatunix are the computer interface software used. When devolopment slows down on the v3.# board and ion sense is in place there will be another computer interface built. If someone comes along in between that time they are welcome to do it as well....i would but dont have the skills. The thing with megatune is that it only knows of the basic tuning values that the old megasquirt had. There are about 3x the tuning capability now so some values have to be set via LCD/Keyboard or with a terminal program of some sort. The good thing is that most of the values that have to be changed regularly in the tuning process are available to megatune.

The thing to keep in mind is that this is a very new group. The developers are awesome and genious in my book. At just about any time you can contact the devolopers directly via chat lines. There is a fast growing group of us that are learning more and more to help the newbies.

The site is in the process of reorganization, but with the growth it is somewhat messy and will be for some time. The site is an open site to any members of the group to use so you will see alot of repeated information on different members pages. I hated it at first, but now that I am used to it I am very comfortable.

Later,

Chris
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Old 04-02-2004, 08:58 AM
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Anybody have any good web links to sites with turbo projects? Preferably on V8s, but anything will do.

Thanks
Sean
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Old 04-02-2004, 12:06 PM
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Here are a few:

http://www.beverlyhillsvideo.se/nysy/start.asp
http://www.jdhcon.com/Home/Home.htm
http://www.jdhcon.com/Home/Home.htm
http://hometown.aol.com/lqdnthusim/page.htm
http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/
http://www.toohighpsi.com

Later,

Chris
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Old 04-03-2004, 01:25 PM
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Chris, thanks for the links. Now I am finally able to start with the project, since one of the sites you listed had extensive information on how to modify a carb for turbo use, plus it had pictures With the expense of fuel injection out the window, i can really get started

I am going to order a ProForm main body, and modify the rest as suggested.

My next question is where to find 2 turbos that will fit my application. Should I go to the junk yard and pull identical turbos off an eclipse or 80s-90s turbo 4cyl? What about diesel turbos? I've heard people mention they used them with good results.

Thanks again
Sean
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Old 04-03-2004, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by onecoomofo
Do you honestly think you can flow that much air through a TBI motor? All the TBI units ive seen only support up to 350HP.



If TurboS10 reads this, I have a question for you. Does the ECU that comes with the Edelbrock setup allow for forced induction? Also, does the Holley Commander setup allow for that? I think i remember reading that it did... but the downside is i have heard mixed reviews about holley's setup.

Thanks
Sean
sorry i should have said dual tbi.

http://www.cfm-tech.com/CompleteTBISystems.htm

http://www.turbocity.com/product_inf...products_id=20

Last edited by 84_sportcoupe; 04-03-2004 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 04-03-2004, 10:03 PM
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also i'm going to probably go with a 350 or 383 for this turbo, for the street, so around 600 tame HP if possible. Would 2 grand national turbos work?
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Old 04-04-2004, 09:54 AM
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Dual throttle bodies will work, but MPEFI would be much better. With throttle bodies you are still relying on the manifold for fuel distribution. With MP you dont have to worry about that, they will all be equal.

There are several 80's cars with the Garrett T03 turbos will work from, but the 5speed Tbirds are the best. They have a larger turbine A/R and are more well suited for larger cube engines. But, they will still become a limiting factor in the high RPM because they are a little small. A set of T04's from early Ford Turbo Diesel pickups would be alot better, but might be a little lazy to spool. There are also alot of tractors and heavy equipment that use the T04's. One thing to keep in mind is that with the T04's you will have to buy wastegates as well, but the T03's have them integrated. There are also several single turbo setups that you could use if you want info.

Chris
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:34 AM
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What do you think the powerband for the tbird turbo is? I'm looking for something that will spool up around 2500-3000 RPM and top out at about 5500-6000RPM. I want it to be a nice daily driver, or at least every other day

- Sean
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