Dial Bore Gauge or Mics and Telescoping? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009, 10:31 AM
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Frisco, I am not disagreeing with you but we never even mentioned slide type calipers of any kind and that was not even being discussed.

With this tool of course there are no rack&pinion sets or any mechanism to be fowled by dirt (as long as the screw is kept clean).

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32


My only comments about using these are that, for me anyway, they work just as good as the telescoping gauges, are just as accurate and that I personally just never found much use for the telescoping gauges vs these, with the exception maybe of really deep small diameter holes. These devices can be, and indeed are, used to make precise measurements but their accuracy depends on the skill of the user, not particularly hard to do but it does take a bit of practice and there is a chance of error if the user gets a bit sloppy or in a hurry. About the +/- .010 accuracy, again all I said was that they can be used for greater accuracy than that (they actually would be quite useless if they could only get within .020) and I never disputed the manufacturers claims, but then I assume you were talking about the vernier calipers with a rack&pinion mechanism which is irrelevant to what we were discussing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco
Many brands of vernier calipers (dial and LCD electronic) are designed to utilize a rack & pinion for the dial to function. Even the slightest amount of foreign material (or a rapid movement of the slide) can cause the pinion to "jump" a tooth or more when sliding the movable jaw of the vernier. This will cause the readings to be completely incorrect. Most manufactures include a thin copper or brass shim that is designed to enable the operator to re-align and thus "zero" the gauge if used correctly.

I agree with you 100% about this however these, unless I missed something somewhere, these tools were not even being discussed.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009, 10:33 AM
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Well said frisco. Looks like we come from the same era. haha.
For as long as I can remember a vernier caliper has been called a "very near" as that was about the best you could get with them dial,slide or digital. I have to laugh at the digital ones that read to .0005. The difference between my son and I is about .005 using the same 'very near' against gage blocks. I'm usually pretty close depending on whether we use my 'very near' or his.

Back to the original question:

I think a middle of the road set of 0-6 mics and a 0-6 bore gage is probably what LittlePwny needs. He should probably get an inexpensive $25-30 digital 'very near' to use for most measuring. A little time spent learning to read and adjust them would be worthwhile. To be really right I'd take the new sets to a shop and calibrate them, a few more $ well spent in my mind.

Once done the stuff becomes 'instruments' and need to be treated kindly. handle gently, try to keep reasonable steady temps, don't drop them or shock them, keep grinding dust and machine chips away, and don't use the 'very near' for a scribe or marking tool.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Frisco, I am not disagreeing with you but we never even mentioned slide type calipers of any kind and that was not even being discussed.

With this tool of course there are no rack&pinion sets or any mechanism to be fowled by dirt (as long as the screw is kept clean).

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
Ahaa! I have found the problem. We (you and I) are discussing semantics here.

You refer to dividers as inside calipers.

I thus assumed you were referring to vernier calipers. The use of dividers as a precision measuring devise would be up to the individual. If that is what you use and are comfortable with; then that is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings

I think a middle of the road set of 0-6 mics and a 0-6 bore gage is probably what LittlePwny needs. He should probably get an inexpensive $25-30 digital 'very near' to use for most measuring. A little time spent learning to read and adjust them would be worthwhile. To be really right I'd take the new sets to a shop and calibrate them, a few more $ well spent in my mind.

Once done the stuff becomes 'instruments' and need to be treated kindly. handle gently, try to keep reasonable steady temps, don't drop them or shock them, keep grinding dust and machine chips away, and don't use the 'very near' for a scribe or marking tool.
This says it all very well.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco
Ahaa! You refer to dividers as inside calipers.

OK, so now you are going to "split hairs"?

These certainly are calipers to me and several million other people including Enco! Or maybe Enco don't know what to call them either.


Divider,

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32


outside caliper,

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32


inside caliper,

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32



Go ahead and roll your eyes you knew very well what I was talking about I even provided a link, A heck of lot of people refer to these tools as calipers including manufactures and tool catalogs. I never said anything that even alluded to vernier calipers and you know it.

Maybe you should E-mail Enco and the other distributors and tell them they have it all wrong!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
OK, so now you are going to "split hairs"?

These certainly are calipers to me and several million other people including Enco! Or maybe Enco don't know what to call them either.
I certainly apologize to you if I have offended you in any way. That certainly was not my intentions.

You are correct that dividers are often referred to as calipers.

Here are two links to the Starrett site of interest pertaining to calipers and dividers (calipers).
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:59 AM
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How about google images for "inside calipers"?


http://images.google.com/images?q=in...N&hl=en&tab=wi

A couple more from distributors

Inside CALIPER,

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Stai...iper-10-/G9272



http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...3123707&ucst=t




[EDIT] No offense at all, but referring to all spring type calipers as "dividers" is sort of like calling all slide type calipers simply "verniers" which I have heard some people do from time to time, nothing wrong with that if that's what they like to call them.
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:03 PM
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Back to the OP's question, I think I'd prefer to work with inside and outside mics. And, I'd never rely on the direct reading of an inside mike where clearance was the real question. I found repeatability of readings with my dial bore gauge (addmittedly, a cheap one) seemed poor. Maybe that was technique, I don't know. But, using an inside mic in lieu of a telescope gauge, then measuring it with a bow mic, I found myself getting very highly repeatable readings. Inside mics have so many opportunities for error as you assemble, disassemble, and reassemble all the pieces, and who has a calibration bench with standards in their local shop/garage to check each time an assembly goes together? I work at a defense plant, and I can bring my bow-mic standards in for verification on the SuperMic. Then, I calibrate (adjust) the mics to the known values of the standards. This gives me good values at each end of each mic's range. And, good knowledge with respect to the actual accuracy (at the ends of the range) for the mic.

With regard to the caliper/divider debate, I always thought dividers were drafting tools for dividing a line into equal length. Hence, a divider would have points, approximately parallel at its ends. I think a divider with curved points, (i.e. for checking the distance between the two sides of a slot) is not really a divider, but a caliper. But then again, I "grew up" in a drafting room so I have my own prejudices too.

And, a few less whiskers.

Pat
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
I think a middle of the road set of 0-6 mics and a 0-6 bore gage is probably what LittlePwny needs. He should probably get an inexpensive $25-30 digital 'very near' to use for most measuring. A little time spent learning to read and adjust them would be worthwhile. To be really right I'd take the new sets to a shop and calibrate them, a few more $ well spent in my mind.

Thank you for this. I will purchase the tools now and let you know what I order.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39 OLDROD
You got good advise on the hole. A dial bore gage is THE ONLY way to go if you need a accurate measurement in a hole outside mikes for the outside. Oh you did't say if you knew how to read the things? if not go to your local trade school and get a crash course or at lest get a buddy that can show you and remember its all in the feel on the mikes! they an't c-clamps and WILL not read right if you use them that way plus will have to be reset if used this way. best of luck just remember all it takes is a little practice and you can be as accurate as us 25 year machinist.

OLDROD
Thanks for the encouragement. As far as I'm concerned, I should learn to use the inside calipers. I will buy the dial bore gauge, but I can't expect to have very broad experience without learning the cheaper, commonly used tools.
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:53 PM
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Tools arrived today! Thanks everyone for the suggestions and invaluable aid.

1-5 inch Fowler Outside Mikes.
1.4-6 inch dial bore gauge Fowler.
Magnetic stand.
Mitutuyo 3 inch feeler gauge set.
Beam type torque wrench.
KD tools piston ring compressor.
I forwent the inside calipers for now due to pressing cash concerns.

Thanks everyone once again!I appreciate it very much.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2009, 10:51 PM
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Don't you just love it when Christmas comes early!
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