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Old 09-18-2006, 12:00 PM
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Did I FUBAR My TH350 ? (Long)

I have a freshly-built TCI TH350 installed behind a moderately-built 6-71 SBC in a 1900 lb. T-bucket. The car only has about 300 miles on it since completion and is only street-driven. The tranny came with no speedo drive adaptor. I was anxious to get the car running to make a cruise event so I plugged the hole for the speedo drive with a plastic pipe plug sealed with silicone (yeah, you can see it coming, can't you !!). I meant to just test drive the car with the plug in, then hunt down a drive adaptor. Well, I forgot about the plastic plug and drove the 300 miles with it in place. The last few miles I noticed noise coming from the tranny, gradually getting louder. It was a medium frequency "grrrrrrrr" kinda noise that didn't change with RPM/speed. It was only present in Drive, not in 2nd or 1st. Since the event was over, I put the car on the trailer and came home. As I drove the car off the trailer I noticed a puddle of tranny fluid on the trailer. It was not there before I started the car to pull off the trailer. Put the car on jacks and started looking for the source of the tranny fluid. Aha! The plastic plug!! It was still in place but hot tranny fluid had melted a hole in it. I checked the fluid level and it was low, but there was still fluid showing and it wasn't burnt. A got a speedo drive and housing and installed it along with the speedo sending unit. Topped off the fluid and drove the car around. It still makes the noise. Could driving possibly up to 300 miles with gradually draining fluid have damaged something in the tranny? It only started making the noise the last maybe 20 miles or so and it came on gradually and it's only in Drive.

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Old 09-18-2006, 12:16 PM
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drop the pan and look for filings, also chk to see if the converter ballooned..hope all is well
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:38 PM
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What is converter ballooning?

I've never heard of that.
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:03 AM
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Ballooning... my understanding is that in a high horsepower, heavy acceleration situation the case of the converter can be distorted by the high pressure created within the the converter. This changes the spacing between the crank flange and the front of the tranny and can cause damage to the tranny and/or the rear main bearing in the motor. I doubt that is my problem as I have the TCI Streetfighter converter that has a reinforced case to prevent ballooning, and with my light T-bucket, the tires break loose long before the motor gets anywhere near the peak of its power band.
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Old 12-05-2006, 01:33 PM
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Bump and update...

Bumpin it up to see if I can get a response from Briscoe or Crosley.

Update: I completely drained the fluid through a coffee filter... only a few tiny particles, which I assume would be expected with a fresh build. Fluid looked fresh, no burning or other discoloration. Removed the pan, nothing evident. Removed the filter and rinsed it in solvent. Again just a few tiny particles.

Again, this tranny is in a T-bucket. The body is unfinished and there is no interior other than a seat insert. I had to cut back the floor above the tranny quite a bit to clear the Lokar shifter mounting plate, so basically the entire top of the tranny case from the bellhousing back to the tail housing is exposed in the driving compartment, with the top of the tranny maybe nine inches from my right knee when driving. I'm wondering if what I'm hearing is a normal noise that one wouldn't ordinarily notice with a weather-proofed and insulated floor or console over the tranny?!?! Wishful thinking?
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Old 12-05-2006, 02:13 PM
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It is possible you're hearing a transmission noise which is normally covered by road noise etc, in a normal car, or it may a drivetrain noise (harmonic).
If the trnamission is shifting up and down and has no other problems, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

TEST: cover the trans and floor with a couple of furnture pads and take another ride. See if you still notice the noise.

WIth the exhaust noise of most buckets I'm kinda surprised you could even hear yourself think let alone a "grrrrr" in the trans.
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Old 12-05-2006, 02:34 PM
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Did I FUBAR My TH350? [Long]

The key is,how low did it get,with fluid still showing[engine running]on the stick I doubt it caused a problem.

Noises in the gear train are most predominate when trans is in reduction,for a 3 speed thats 1st and 2nd,gear train turns as one in 3rd[simpson geartrain]

When I roadtest vans,with no insulation,I can't believe all the noise I hear coming from drivetrain. You may be a little hypersensitive to any noise,given the circumstance,I know I would be.

The test Pasadenahotrod suggest is a good idea. Good luck,hope it works out well.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:21 PM
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The speedo driven gear slings oil (ATF) onto the output bushing. Long road trips at highway speeds could cause the bushing to starve for oil.
Pull the driveshaft, inspect the slip yoke, and remove the tailhousing and inspect the bushing.

Let us know what you find.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasadenahotrod
WIth the exhaust noise of most buckets I'm kinda surprised you could even hear yourself think let alone a "grrrrr" in the trans.
Hahaha! Yeah, it's kinda loud when I mash it, but at city street cruise of 35-45, it's not too bad, and that's when I hear the grrrrr.

Jake, I didn't know that about the driven gear slinging the oil. But I only hear the noise in 3rd. If'n it's the bushing, shoudn't I hear it in any gear?

I can be cruising at 35-40 in third and be hearing the noise, but if I drop it into 2nd, the noise immediately goes away.

So if in third on a TH350 everything is locked up and no planetaries are moving and it's making gear noise, and you drop it into 2nd and the noise goes away... under what circumstances can that happen?!?!?
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:20 PM
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The direct drum stops spinning in 2nd gear, along with the sun shell and gear.

So,
it could be the sun shell rubbing the case, direct drum or sun gear bushings, or the intermediate roller clutch.

Those are my guesses with the updated info.

Does it do it in 1st or does it also go away?
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:51 PM
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It only makes the noise in 3rd. I haven't checked Reverse. It is definitely a gear noise, not rubbing. It's a medium frequency noise, maybe 20-30 hertz or so.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:55 PM
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The sun shell rubbing the case won't be a "rubbing" noise, believe me.

Sounds like something internal that deals with the direct drum or sun shell area to me, but you need to see if it does it in 1st gear, reverse, etc.

Try to narrow down the exact conditions when you encounter the noise and it makes it easier for us to diagnose from afar.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:59 PM
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OK, let's do the math. If I'm cruising at 40 mph with a 3.42 rear end and 32" diameter tires in 3rd (1:1) but not a lock-up converter (2800 stall) and I'm showing 2200 rpm on the tach and I hear a cyclic noise at about 2000-2400 cycles per minute, what are the possibilities?
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:04 PM
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Something rubbing the case at input shaft rpm... Like the sun shell.

Direct drum over-running in a damaged intermediate roller clutch.

Inner race over-running in a damaged low roller clutch.

Direct drum running against the int. band that is worn to metal or broken.

Bad bushing previously mentioned.

Combination of a bad sun gear/direct drum bushing allowing the direct drum and sun shell to run off center causing the sun shell to rub the case.
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:05 PM
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Jake, I can't do any diagnostics 'cuz the bucket is torn down for paint. Tranny is sitting on blocks, motor is on a stand.
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