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Old 11-29-2007, 03:23 PM
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diesel oil

I'v been hearing a lot of chatter lately about using oil designed for diesel in gasoline powered vehicles. Something about higher zinc content or something. Supposed to be more like the oil we used to buy. Anyone else here of this? What do you think?

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Old 11-29-2007, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPORTINWOOD56
I'v been hearing a lot of chatter lately about using oil designed for diesel in gasoline powered vehicles. Something about higher zinc content or something. Supposed to be more like the oil we used to buy. Anyone else here of this? What do you think?
Your arriving at the party late, Federal regulations are affecting diesel lube oils as well because the heavy transportation and construction industry is having to get in the catalytic converter line.

But yes, this worked for several years past, Shell Rotella 15-40 or Chevron RPM Delo 400 15/20-40/50 were about the last hold outs. Even GM EOS has gone away. I expect that currently where the ZDDP will be high is in motorcycle oils for those bikes that run engine and transmission oil commonly. That would mostly be the Japanese bikes. I expect that to change in a few years as they have to put converters on. I think this could be like a treatment with a single quart of Yamaha/Kawasaki/Honda/Suzuki oil per change would probably provide the benefit you're looking for as this oil is pretty pricey.

If you're building a flat tappet cammed engine these days, you've got to put a thrust button in it, if it isn't an OEM that already uses a thrust plate. Taking the thrust load off the lobe lifter interface goes a long way toward improving the survival chances of these parts. So would going to a synthetic oil be of benefit as its more tenacious molecules are harder to wipe off highly loaded surfaces.

Bogie
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:07 PM
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Rotella oil I have used in cars for over twenty years. There may be some zinc in the oils today but because of combustion processes, there are unwanted emmisons resulting from the use of some additives, zinc and/or ZDDP specifically -there was a study done on oils, diesel, at Oak Ridge National Laboratory a couple years ago. GM's EOS is discontinued, but there is Brad Penn oil as well as Joe Gibbs which has plenty of the stuff for flat tappet cams (solid or hydraulic).
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:56 AM
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And Valvoline VR1 racing oil, which I use. Check their web site for the specs.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:58 AM
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Thanks everyone for all your input. I have a little catching up to do!
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:59 AM
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Just a word of caution on the Valvoline and any other racing oils.

The "not for street use" oils have the high ZDP you are looking for, for high lift, high spring pressure, steep ramp flat tappet cams. The container will specifically say something like "not for street use", if it doesn't see below.

The "street legal" racing oils sold on the shelf of most retailers and auto parts stores have to meet the same API oil service category as any other oil (not high zinc.) Look for the API "service symbol donut" on the container.

PS, do a search of the archives. This topic has been discussed to death.
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:30 AM
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Redline and Royal Purple both have high levels of zinc. Amsoil is supposed to have other additives that negate the use of zinc.

Also look into valvoline synpower oil treatment. Its loaded with zinc and moly, both high pressure additives.

Jordon
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novajohnb
Just a word of caution on the Valvoline and any other racing oils.

The "not for street use" oils have the high ZDP you are looking for, for high lift, high spring pressure, steep ramp flat tappet cams. The container will specifically say something like "not for street use", if it doesn't see below.

The "street legal" racing oils sold on the shelf of most retailers and auto parts stores have to meet the same API oil service category as any other oil (not high zinc.) Look for the API "service symbol donut" on the container.

PS, do a search of the archives. This topic has been discussed to death.
Yes, this has been discussed to death, but, to get the true oil specs, you need to go to the Valvoline site. They have all the specs, ZDDP included, for the "not legal" oils and the VR1. There is just as much ZDDP in VR1 as in the "not legal" racing oils, the last time I checked.

Valvoline told me that as long as the oil container did not have the 'Gold Sunburst' it had the ZDDP. The API service letters do not matter as far as the ZDDP quantity in the oil, as long as the "Sunburst" is not present.

Anyone who has manufacturer information showing low ZDDP (less than 0.12 I believe) please let me know and cite your source.

If I am wrong, I will be the first to acknowledge it. Otherwise, stop listening to your buddies at the drive in without documented proof.

I use VR1 because of the ZDDP.

Valvoline was nice enough to look at a thread on another forum, here's their response:


Quote:
We are not able to join the forums, but we can give you the answer you need, or maybe would like to add to the forum. Our VR1 Racing Oil is NOT just an "ordinary new car street oil" as listed. Our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oils can be used in street applications, but still contains the high amount of ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus). This information can be found on our Valvoline.com website, under the section where it lists the Racing Oils. We have also added the product information sheet for both the VR1 and the "Not Street Legal" Racing oils. As you will see, Valvoline still contains 1200 ppm Zinc content in our regular conventional VR1. It does carry the API Service "SM" rating, but this oil was not made to change for emission standards due to it not being a "ordinary street car oil." This information clearly states the amount of both the Zinc and Phosphorus levels in the oils. The main difference between the the "Not Street Legal" racing oil, or commonly known as Conventional and Synthetic Racing oils, and the VR1 is the Calcium content. Calcium levels are higher in the NSL oils, compared to the VR1, and the NSL oil is only recommended for 500 mile oil changes, while the VR1 is a 3 month/3,000 mile oil.
Valvoline stands behind the flat-tappet and more aggressive type cam applications 100% with our Valvoline VR1 and NSL Racing oils. The proof is in our product information sheets, which are online for the viewing as well.

Here are the product information sheets with test results for all of VR1, Not Street Legal conventional, and Not Street Legal Synthetic.


Thank you,


Valvoline
Quote

A copy of an E-Mail sent to me:

Quote:

The oil industry per ILSAC had to only decrease the levels of ZDDP (Zinc)in certain viscosity to meet new emission standards. The ILSAC rated oilsstill have an average of .085 levels of zinc. Testing has shown on standardOEM set ups that used mild camshafts will still get plenty of protectionfrom the new rated oils. There is an exception when it comes to extremeaftermarket applications. If you have a high performance solid lifter setup with an aggressive cam then you will need to use a quality Racing Oilsuch as VR1 or All Fleet Plus Oil for break in and normal usage. These oilshave an increased level of Zinc that will range from .14 to .16 and willprovide plenty of protection.

To: VWEBMAIL@Ashlandcc: Subject: Site feedback from Valvoline.com

Last edited by glen242; 12-01-2007 at 01:19 PM.
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