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-   -   Difference between non-lock up and lock up transmissions beside the torque converter (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/difference-between-non-lock-up-lock-up-transmissions-beside-torque-199756.html)

cool rockin daddy 06-03-2011 05:43 PM

Difference between non-lock up and lock up transmissions beside the torque converter
 
Damn it, got my Stage 2 2004R transmission and the paper work says it is a non-lock up transmission! The input shaft does not have splines all the way to the end of the shaft indicating a lock up style transmission. Pretty sure all 2004R's had this shaft. Will a lock up kit such as from TCI along with a lock up converter solve this dilemma? Are there any other differences in the styles of transmissions? Thanks.

SSedan64 06-03-2011 08:39 PM

When a 2004R's converted to use a Non-Lockup TC, the Check valve w/Retainer and O-ring is removed from the end of the Input Shaft. The TCC valve & TCC Solenoid is removed from the Pump and a Non-Lockup valve is installed. So reverse this & get a Lockup TC + Lockup kit or DIY kit & your set.

cudablack2004 06-03-2011 08:42 PM

so what difference will u get as far as driving with lockup option and without?

SSedan64 06-03-2011 08:54 PM

A Lockup TC locks the Crankshaft with the Trans Input Shaft like a vehicle with a manual Trans & clutch. It provides slightly better MPG. The engine will be turning a few 100 less RPMs because the TC isn't slipping when locked.

cudablack2004 06-03-2011 09:02 PM

seems like it would be more harsh on the trans

SSedan64 06-03-2011 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudablack2004
seems like it would be more harsh on the trans

Not really, they're designed to Lockup @mild/part throttle. Now if you wire them to Lockup @WOT with a stock single Disc TCC it can burn the TCC clutch and break internal Trans parts.
PI makes TCs with multi 3, 5 or 7 Disc TCCs "Vigilante" that can handle WOT lockups but, the Trans will need some internal Mods if it's behind an Engine with much HP/TQ to prevent snapping the Input & Forward drum Shafts.

cool rockin daddy 06-04-2011 06:14 AM

A lock up converter will save you gas, will cut down on slippage therefore reducing tranny killing heat, and saves wear and tear on the trans. Do I have to take this sucker apart to do these things or should I ship it back?

cudablack2004 06-04-2011 07:39 AM

mines doesnt have lockup but i guess it wont be bad since i dont drive the car far but i should invest in a trans cooler

SSedan64 06-04-2011 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
A lock up converter will save you gas, will cut down on slippage therefore reducing tranny killing heat, and saves wear and tear on the trans. Do I have to take this sucker apart to do these things or should I ship it back?

Check to see if the Check valve capsule & O-ring are in the end of the Input Shaft 1st.
Part #'s 380 & 480 here>> http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/gr...pdf/200-4R.pdf

Only have to drop the Pan for the TCC valve & Solenoid.
The Non-Lockup valve replaces this>> http://www.sonnax.com/product-lines/...ion/parts/3099 and the Solenoid goes in the same hole last, here>> http://www.montecarloss.com/TCC_5.jpg

cool rockin daddy 06-05-2011 11:33 AM

SS,
I appreciate your help on this. No, my transmission does NOT have the check valve or O-ring. I didn't even know you could get a 2004R that was non-lock up! Have to talk to builder to see where we go from here. He has a killer rep for being a decent guy so I am sure it will work out. He can send me the parts and I can have my transmission guy do the work or I can send him the trans to have him do the work. Whichever way he wants to do it and still warranty the transmission is how I'll do it.

SSedan64 06-05-2011 09:18 PM

Glad to help.
Many go Non-Lock because of TC selection. It's very difficult to build an efficient Hi-stall Lockup TC, when they're are not Locked they have high Slip %. Most use Non-Locks for Strip use or Multi disc TCC for locking @Strip such as PI's Vigilante TC.

Todd

cool rockin daddy 06-05-2011 09:27 PM

Yeah, and that's the part that is confusing. Guy knew it was a street driven car and recommended the Grand National D5 converter, which of course is a lock up converter. He is very busy and I think he forgot the conversation and since I didn't even know this was an option, we get the comedy of errors that is my 2004R. I will keep everyone informed as to how it turns out.

SSedan64 06-05-2011 09:38 PM

Lonnie @EA? or Chris @CK?

Lonnie's a one man show & very busy, most of his builds are Non-Locks.

Chris builds many of both & is busy to.
Either builder will make it right & both build great Trans.

cool rockin daddy 06-06-2011 06:16 AM

It's Lonnie. He is indeed swamped. But it is reassuring to know that his rep for being a good guy is far and wide.

cool rockin daddy 06-16-2011 07:25 PM

Update
 
As some of you might remember, I ordered a Stage 2 2004R from one of the reputable builders on here. Due to a snafu, I got a non-lockup instead of the lockup trans I desired. One astute reader rightfully guessed it was Lonnie at Extreme Automatics. He said that Lonnie would make it right.

Well, I'm here to tell you that Lonnie did make it right. By luck, I had to go to a customer near Lonnies shop (live in Mich, he is in OH near KY border) so I threw the trans in the trunk. Lonnie had called me back the FIRST day he was back from vacation and said he would do whatever it took to make it right. Said come on in anytime, even midnite, and he would fix it while I was there. Well, it wasn't midnite, but he fixed it while I waited, dropping everything else to take care of it. He was even willing to eat the shipping to and back from my place if I couldn't get it downthere. It was an honest mistake made by somebody in the office but Lonnie went over and above to make it right. I tip my hat to him. He is the friendliest, most knowledgable guy I have ever met in the aftermarket parts biz and I felt like I had known him for twenty years instead of twenty minutes.

To those of you on the fence trying to decide which builder to put your
2004R together, don't lose another minutes sleep over it. Call Lonnie at Extreme Automatics and rest easy. You're money will be well spent.

Thanks again, Lonnie

Chet


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