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-   -   to dip or not to dip? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/dip-not-dip-54499.html)

mopar72 12-20-2004 01:13 PM

to dip or not to dip?
 
No I'm not starting a discussion about chew.
I want information about stripping a complete car down to bare metal by removing paint, bondo, rust and whatever else that doesn't belong.
I have read alot of posts about this subject, on this board as well as others. I would like to have some opinions and experiences on the different types of dipping processes. I know the alternative is to media blast. But I would like to just have a discussion about dipping.
Most of the bad reasons I have read about has to do with the acid, or whatever solution is used, weeping back out of the seams after a period of time. Does this result happen no matter what type of solution is used in the dipping process? I live in central Illinois and there are 2 Redi-Strp facilities north of me. (located in Roselle and Joliet) there is also one in Indianapolis I believe.
They offer to have the car dipped with ospho after the stripping process. Does this have anything to do with preventing problems with the weeping issue and why some people have problems and others don't? If anyone has used any of these places please tell me if you were satisfied with the results and any problems since then. What all did you have done to the car? Was it only stripped or did you have everything done by them? Including primer.
The cost to have this done is not small so I would like to get as much information about this subject, good or bad, before I make a decision about having this done.

Centerline 12-20-2004 02:31 PM

Had my 41 dipped.

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/dipped.jpg

Washed it down with water, dried it, and then sprayed it with DP 90 the same day I got it back. It sat for 4 years in primer in the garage while I finished the chassis, engine, and body work before I finally painted it. Been on the road now for about 6 years and has had no problems whatsoever with weeping. If it's done by an experienced dipper you shouldn't have problems.

Centerline

roykuz 12-20-2004 03:28 PM

Mopar, how much do they want to dip it? I am thinking about doing that to my 48 Lincoln. It's in real bad shape. Thanks

BOBCRMAN@aol.com 12-20-2004 03:33 PM

I had my Anglia body dipped and Ospho'd by a local Redi-Strip. This was many years ago before those type businesses were regulated/zoned out of business around here. The Ospho is for paint adhesion. This body has shown no sign of "creeping" or paint peeling.

farna 12-20-2004 03:36 PM

Unless the car is in really bad shapre I wouldn't dip it. As long as you let it sit up a few days before painting, then a couple more after primer (just in case you get weeping), there shouldn't be a problem. The "ospho" is an acid neutralizer which should take care of that problem, but a thorough washing should fix it.

I'd be very cautious about dipping a unit body car. The oldsters don't have many enclosed areas, unit bodies do. If you do dip a unit body, make sure you tilt it a few hours to one side, the other, and end to end. The big problem is you strip off any factory corrosion inhibiters that were used INSIDE the various boxed sections, like the rockers. Those are major supports for the car. You'll need to get a rust proofing kit with long wands and drill a few extra holes so you can get into all those areas, or take it down to a Ziebart location. They drill access holes to enclosed areas too. The holes don't take away strength (hey, it's just a couple 3/4"-1" holes!, and they pop plastic plugs in just like the factory access holes. Now if you could get it dipped in primer afterwards that would be great, but no one offers that service!

BarryK 12-20-2004 05:44 PM

Over the years I have dipped many Mustangs, 1960's SL's,
67-69 Firebirds and last month dipped one 69 GTO and Sand blasted the other. The GTO cost under $1500 to dip.
I have never seen or had a creeping problem.
I wash them with soap and water than give the body a good blow job than DA with 80 and wash with wax and grease remover and spray epoxy.
Too me its the most perfect way to do a car.

mopar72 12-20-2004 07:07 PM

roykuz - here are the numbers Roselle (708) 529-2442 Joliet (815) 727-1095
I havn't contacted them yet. I know someone on another board that had a car done in Roselle and he paid $600 to have it dipped and have the ospho applied. I have heard you can spend anywhere from that price up to $3000 depending on who does the work and what all you have done. Having them apply primer would cost more and some places do apply primer if you want. Some companys charge by the length of time the car is actually being dipped along with the size of the car.
I know that the problem cars are the unibody cars since everything is enclosed and there are more seams for the chemicals to stay and not drain out. I was wondering if anybody had a unibody car done and used a rotiserie afterwards to help drain some of the chemicals out?
Could the guys who have replied to this post about having their cars dipped tell me where and what kind of chemicals they used at the place they had it done at?

Randy Ferguson 12-20-2004 08:47 PM

Hi Mopar72,

I have had excellent results with dipping and always recommend it!. I have Redi-Strip in Evansville, IN do my work. They use a heavy alkaline solution rather than acid. They recommend allowing the vehicle to sit a couple days, or use a heat gun around the seams to dry the surface completely before applying primer.
If you really want a top notch job, this is the way to go.
http://www.redi-coat.com/photos.html
Costs a bit, but I can't touch one for the price they charge to dip and e-coat. This is the absolute BEST way possible.

Feel free to come on down for a visit some time.

Randy Ferguson
Ferguson Coachbuilding
Robinson, IL.
(618)544-2972
www.metalmeet.com

mopar72 12-20-2004 09:27 PM

Randy,
I have read alot of your posts and have thought of sending you an email to see if I could come down and check out your place. Maybe sometime in the spring I can drive down. I have a 1972 Dodge Challenger that I will be redoing some of the body work on and am currently trying to locate a project car for a daily driver. This new project is why I'm really looking into the dipping process. The car line I'm looking at is about 30 years old and if I find one around this area then rust will probably be an issue as well as previous body work and possibly multiple layers of paint. Any car that old will likely have all three.

You mentioned e-coat. What is that?

The person that I mentioned about taking his car to Roselle Redi-Strip said that they used an alkaline solution. This is what he said they did.

"During the process, the car is cleaned, the paint is stripped, the car is rinsed, the car is dipped in the Alkaline (BASE) rust removal tank, the car is then rinsed and dipped into the phosphate tank and then is drained.

The dipping place that we used did not put any protective coating on the car other than the phosphate coating.

While it is true that there will be remains of the phosphate weeping for a few months, it does dry. If the car is mounted on a rotiserie, the draining process is dramatically shortened."

Does this sound like what they do in Evansville?

Randy Ferguson 12-20-2004 11:59 PM

Hi Mopar72,

Sorry, I left out the link. I've edited my previous post and added it, but here it is again. http://www.redi-coat.com/photos.html

The process you just explained sounds much like the way Evansville Redi-Coat operates. I've had phenominal results with dipping. I suspect those who have had problems went the acid dipping route. It's almost impossible to get 100% of the acid removed from tight spots and once it gets wet, whether by rain, or simply humidity, it re-activates and causes serious problems. I'm convinced Redi-Strip is the safe approach. Too bad our local companies do not offer the e-coat process.

I believe the website linked above explains the e-coat process.
This is the coating you see on NEW sheetmetal parts, usually a black primer.

Randy Ferguson

mopar72 12-21-2004 09:18 AM

Randy,

Just went to the Redi-Coat site and read through the e-coat process. Sounds like it is a pretty good way of protecting bare metal. The price is kind of steep but if I had the budget I would probably go that way.
Just on average what does the Evansville Redi-Strip charge to do a complete car? Body, hood, doors, deck lid, loose items...
How do they charge for their service? By the hour, by weight or by the type of parts being dipped?
Going by what I've read on your posts I would think you apply the primer yourself. Do you prime the car yourself or have you ever had them do it?

Randy Ferguson 12-21-2004 05:12 PM

Mopar72,

I think they go by size?? I don't normally ask 'how much' In fact, I try to have that work taken care of by the vehicle owner before I get it. It saves me time, and them money!! Last I checked it was around $1,200-$1,500 to do a complete car.
I don't think they offer the primer option. I usually end up doing it myself, but I think I'm gonna start insisting on having everything e-coated from now on. For the most part, anymore, my job is done when the metal work is complete. I've been a painter for nearly 18 years, and though I still enjoy custom painting, I'm completely obsessed with metalshaping. High quality custom painting takes an overwhelming amount of time!!! I've done so many paint jobs, it takes something pretty cool to peak my interest anymore.

Randy

mopar72 12-21-2004 06:23 PM

Randy,
Went today to look at a car for my new project. If I decide to buy the car it will need to have a few of the panels replaced and some pieces I would like to fabricate. If it's O.K. with you I would like to come down sometime in the spring for some pointers about fabricating.

Randy Ferguson 12-21-2004 08:44 PM

Not a problem.
You're welcome here anytime.

Randy


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