Disks without power??? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,091
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Disks without power???

Hi'
I have a 2500 lb car with corvair ifs ,10" gm rear with drum brakes all around .I am thinking about converting the front to disks .Will the disks work ok without power assist,and what kind of master cyl would be reccomended?
Thanks

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:11 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to title a hot rod Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Virginia
Age: 25
Posts: 3,393
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 16
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I believe that some of the 60s Corvettes (427-435s maybe) had manual disc/drum master cylinders.
Shane
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:12 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
IIRC the '60s Vettes had 4 piston fixed calipers all the way around. But yes, they did have a manual brake option.

If you are using some GM midsize calipers and you keep a 1" master and a 6 to 1 pedal ratio you will have ok braking. the pedal will be stiff, but it'll stop a light car for most all of your braking needs..


I just took apart the brake system on a 40 Ford steel car with all the heavy accessories, AC, 9" rear, 351W and a bunch of stereo and power steering and carpet, sound deadening, ..(heavy for a 40 ford)with 9.25" rotors, MII calipers,(I need to check the piston size), some 10" rear drums and a 5:1 pedal ratio with a 15/16 bore master cylinder.

Those brakes were OK, but the owner didn't like the way it stopped....stiff pedal and marginal stopping power.......So it got an upgrade.

There is another truck in my shop with some 11" rotors, GM metric calipers, (IIRC those are 2.375 pistons),10" rear drums with 15/16" wheel cylinders, a 6:1 pedal and 1" master cylinder.
That truck stops ok, but again, the pedal is a bit stiff.


So yes, you can get a manual disc system to work quite adequately,,especially in a 2500 pound car, but unless you have a way to get a numerically high pedal ratio and still have enough volume in your master to run those big pistons, you will have a stiff pedal. You can go to a smaller MC for a , but then you run out of fluid volume.....catch22.


The bad part about manual discs is that in the event that you need a bunch of brakes, you'd better have a BF leg. Discs are not self energizing, so a panic stop is a strenuous event.
That is one of the main reasons the majority of disc/drum systems are boosted.


Hope this helps, Mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:44 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 70
Posts: 7,435
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 60
Thanked 164 Times in 153 Posts
Ford on its earlier big vans had disk drums and a manual M/C option..Can't say how it works as my rodster is not road worthy yet but tha tis what I am doing...

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:51 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,091
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks
I just don't want that big power booster in my engine compartment maybe I'll think about an under the floor set-up,or the corvette mastercyl I have to watch the budjet,but I do want good brakes It stops good with the drums,but I'm going from a 4-cyl to a V8 and I thought maybe the disks would be better???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:59 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by yragat
Thanks
I just don't want that big power booster in my engine compartment maybe I'll think about an under the floor set-up,or the corvette mastercyl I have to watch the budjet,but I do want good brakes It stops good with the drums,but I'm going from a 4-cyl to a V8 and I thought maybe the disks would be better???
The corvette master is not all that special, the manual one is a 1" bore with 2 of the same size reserviors..In fact, the springs inside may be better suited to a 4 wheel disc system.

Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007, 09:31 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to title a hot rod Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Virginia
Age: 25
Posts: 3,393
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 16
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Have you thought about Hydroboost? are there any production 4 wheel disc mastercylinders thatl'll work with hydroboost?
Shane
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007, 04:58 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,091
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't even know what hydro boost is. Is it something new and is it expensive? If the vette master cyl isn't anything special what others would u suggest?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007, 05:37 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Non-Power Disc-Drum was a common option (over four wheel drum) in the Muscle Car Years, mainly because of cost (booster option) and low engine vacuum.

IMO, there is not that much extra pedal effort required and it makes for a cleaner/cheaper installation.

Just pay attention to the info already provided as to MC type, valving, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007, 08:21 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,091
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks, good you mentioned about low vacumn I don't think I'll be having much with the cam i'm going to use
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007, 08:53 AM
31 five window
 

Last journal entry: Master cylinder
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: louisiana
Age: 57
Posts: 1,577
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Everybody made good points so consider them all. Hydraboost is far from new,it is power brakes run by the power steering pump instead of vacuum booster,hydraulic=hydra,hope this helps you.My son in law"big brian"and I and others built his 1965 big block chevy truck,it had original manual brakes,we changed the whole front suspension from a 81 c10 W/disc front and made our own rear disc conversion later. He wanted a clean firewall also,we put the 81 master cyl with no booster w/stock pedal assembly.It worked very well with and without rear discs,and I am no where near as big as Brian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:08 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,091
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't have power steering any way so that wouldn't work for me
thanks
Gary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Lone Star State (Houston area)
Posts: 1,189
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My son's 57 Chevy BelAir 2door sedan has discs up front(early Chevelle) and no power assist. None of us have had any problem getting it stopped even in a few "panic" stop situations.
Of course, we don't have any problem with the stock manual steering either. My wife has driven the car and had no complaints.

What do you reckon all those old Grannys did when cars had none of this power stuff? I'll tell you, they got in the car and drove it everyday because that was what they had.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:44 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,091
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sounds good to me!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
chevy 350 jimang22 Engine 4 07-14-2007 03:49 PM
Pully problems: sbc 671 weiand, power steering malibu68 Engine 1 12-05-2006 10:09 AM
Swapping to big block chevy low77ride Engine 5 09-15-2004 09:30 PM
Advise on Porta Power choice meanroy Body - Exterior 7 06-23-2004 11:38 PM
Unusual Power Steering Conversion Lars Sorensen Suspension - Brakes - Steering 17 05-25-2004 02:05 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.