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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2006, 06:34 AM
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Distributor... again...

Hi guys,
So much is written about it, i almost got dizzy when searched in the database... If you can supply me with some more input in the matter i'll be very happy.

Info:
Engine is 427 with some modification, right now between 425-450bhp, but may't be increased to 500-600. Distributor is an Accel with Pertronix Ignitor AC-181, and no vacuum advance. Coil is Accel super coil 140001. Alternator is 37Amp. Electric fuel pump and TH400 with Transbrake is installed. Old 40 year wire-harness still installed .

My case is this:
After driving for lets say... half an hour, the engine just shuts down. If i now do nothing, and let it roll on in 3:rd gear, it starts up again after 5 seconds... then the same thing could happend again after 4-5 minutes. (the brakes is rediculous useless without power)

I have serched some on the net, and found guys with similar problem and Ignitor II installed, but i dont know if that is the case. I was also thinking of the alternator with 37Amps and my extra consumers installed, maybe the Amps is not enough ? The Ignitor demands 12volt i read somewhere...

Well, should i keep my distributor, or go to HEI ? or buy a new Ignitor, or something else. I really have stalled in this case... the Ignitor was by the way installed in 1995, but the car have not travelled more than 3500 miles since.

Thanks guys !
/Pete

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Old 01-15-2006, 09:31 PM
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Doc here,

Well, that's a head scratcher..

Sounds like it could Be one of two things.. Something heating up and going thermal, or a loose harness connection.

To duplicate the latter, start it up and run it, Shake the wire harness as hard as practical between the coil and the dizzy..see if it shuts down or skips a beat..If so unwrap the tape and troubleshoot it.

Thermal, Could be the Coil heating up and shutting down, have you tried a KNOWN good coil yet, (like borrow one off a runner..)? It could be a heating module, too, they'll do that when on the way out..test it or just replace it whatever is quicker..Does this have a 6 AL brainbox? that could have some thermal compo nets in it.Or loose grounds.

Check the advance plate on the Dizzy, advance it manually and inspect to see no wires are hitting through the travel..

Off the top of my head, that's about all I can think of.

Doc
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Old 01-15-2006, 09:38 PM
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off the top of my head....... IS ALL MY HAIR!
anyway, sounds like when my coil wire burned in half in the middle. try a different one, never know.
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Old 01-16-2006, 01:55 AM
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Yeah, i know... it was kind of a lame question... but i was fishing for some shortcuts. Well, the electrical is in for a major overhaul, we can agree on that to begin with...

Thanks for the information guys!
Regards
/Pete
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Old 01-16-2006, 03:22 AM
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Could it be the fuel pump ?
Why assume itīs the distributor ?
edit: after reading again about starting up again if left in gear, I would lean even more to a fuel delivery problem.

(more Qīs than Aīs)

Last edited by malc; 01-16-2006 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 01-16-2006, 05:17 AM
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Yes, you are right malc, it could be... I got the "red holley" right now wich is in for a replacement too. Its old, and it makes a terrible noice... and if we look at the "not so good" voltage delivered... Yes, could be one of many things.

Well, I think i got a a picture over the "what to do list" now anyway, since many parts are old with low reability... the whole petrol and electrical system have to go. (and a inside cleaning of the petroltank!)

Just gotta decide what parts to use, but thats a fun part of it.
A new battery tray is already built for the trunk, and a new battery is bought, just gotta buy some parts from Ron Francis. And a new generator is coming...

Think i got the help i needed anyway...
Thanks again!
/Pete
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Old 01-16-2006, 11:16 PM
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seen something similar at another board and it was a cracked dist. cap.. couldnt see it with an eyeball but when you pull on the cap it came apart. sounds like you gotta real heap tho. this kinda crap comes wit da territory. good luck an latah days as always, lettuce know what the problem was. cheerio
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Old 01-17-2006, 02:42 AM
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Thanks bullheimer, i will check that up also...
And if i find a specific faulty item, i let you guys know.
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Old 01-18-2006, 09:00 PM
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do you have a tach? if so when the engine dies crank it or better yet if a manual trans coast in gear and check the tach if it reads instead of falling to 0 the primary ignition is working, if it stays at 0 you have narrowed the prob. down to the primary circuit.
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Old 01-18-2006, 10:13 PM
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ignitor

Are you running a ballast resistor? The ignitor is supposed to have one. I don't know about the Ignitor II..............GlennK
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Old 01-19-2006, 01:33 AM
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Glennk, yes there is a resistor... and i think it sayd something about that in the instructions for the Ignitor, "replace your resistor with this" ... i shall have another look.
Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2006, 01:36 AM
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Doc here,

I just went back to post 1 and re~read the thread...I note (and didn't before, ) you have a points type Ignition...

Docvette version of "War and Points", may want to get an adult beverage, and curl up next to a warm fire..Or print it out and use it as a check list..OR use it for new wallpaper on the inside of the round file...

First line of defense...Chuck it and go the HEI...You'll be real happy with it! Trust me..

Second line of defence as it stands now, Measure the coil Resistance, First disconnect the wires to the coil. Then drag out your DVOM, and set it for R X 1 or Auto range on the ohms scale.

Measure the primary resistance, It should read less than an ohm. Next set the DVOM for R X 10k or Auto range and measure the Secondary. It should read about 10,000 to 11,000 Ohms. If it falls outside that range, replace it with a known good coil. (See Illustration)



This will not clear internal crossfire in the coil, where the insulating coating has broken down and a spark is jumping across the windings of the inductor. For this you will need an Oscilloscope. So if you have any doubts replace it.

Find out IF that coil DOES require a Ballast,or has a ballast resistance built in..If it is the type that does NOT require one, remove any resistance wire or Ballast you may have.

In either case, Set your DVOM for V X 50 or Auto range on the DC Volts scale, Measure the primary side of the coil (+ side)

To do this , pull the cap, (And inspect it for carbon trails, and corroded tower contacts while there) Set the points on a bottom (flat) lobe, (Closed) OR jumper the points ground with a jumper wire . Turn the key "ON" and make your reading, It should read between 6 and 9 volts..

If it reads between 11.50 and 12.50 volts, your Ballast is ineffective, and needs replacement, Or there is little or no load on the secondary side of the system, This could be Coil windings breaking down, Loose or bad Dizzy wire connection, Dirty, burned, or pitted points, or Contact arm out of alignment horizontally or vertically. Loss of ground to the Dizzy.

If that is correct, turn the key off (Self preservation measure ) and remove the jumper..Or set it on a high spot on the lobe..Take another reading at the coil.

It should read between 11.50 and 12.50 volts..If IT does not change, or only a slight change is present, you have either a Coil headed south for the winter, OR some component or wire partially shorted to ground.

Run a 10 gauge Ground wire from your ground buss system to your coil mounting foot. Burnish off all the paint , dirt and grease from there. Use a proper star washer. Use that same wire and run it to your brain box, and the engine block. Burnish paint and use stars here too.

Check and recheck your points, Be sure they are aligned, not pitted or carbonized, adjuster is tight and the gap is around 17 thousand (look of the exact spec for your engine)

Dig out the old hand vacuum pump, Set the lobes on a close proximity to the high ridge so as to have the points open as you advance the V/A..Turn the key on, darken the garage and observe the points as you run the advance up to about 10 In Hg..(it should start pulling around 5) If you see multiple sparks as the advance plate advances and declines, you have shorting going on in there.

Pull any RFI caps you have from the Dizzy and Coil, (it will run fine without them) and test drive it, If the problem clears up, replace them, (cheap enough at a few bucks each) If the capacitors were leaky, your spark would be bled down before it got to the rotor.

Another thing comes to mind..Bad grounds and bad mounts..A combination that will drive you nutz...If you rely on the stock ground system, and the hookey mount ground strap they run to the motor mount, and bust a mount, as the engine rises under torque WALA! you loose ground to the block..ERGO to the dizzy..

You can test this simply by doing a small torque stand with the hood open, in first and reverse, If the block rises more than about an inch, ya got problems..

EVEN if it's good I highly recommend wiring your ground buss up as follows:

Another Story from the "I Told Ya So files " of Docvette...

There are 9 million stories in the Docvette City..This is one of them..The names were changed to protect the innocent...Dum~De~Dum~Dum..My name is Doc..We were working the day watch out of Lafayette..It was Rainy and cold..My partners name is Reddi Kilowatt..

< cut and paste Story here:>

Run a properly gauged Ground cable from the battery to any handy bolt at or near the starter On the Block, From that same bolt get at Least a #4 Battery cable at the parts store, that has two 3/8 ring terminals on each end and attach it there and to the Frame.

Next get some 10 gauge wire and ring terminals, Fabricate a harness, and run that from your bolt on the block to the Firewall, and another to the Alternator bracket or mount bolt.

Run another 10 gauge to your Fuel tank, Fuel gage sender lug..

If the Bracket and alternator is power white remove them both and their hardware, sand or pressure wash them until clean semi shiny metal, dry and reinstall.

You have electrolysis there..and it will also eat a water pump impeller up faster than any acid..The Alternator Bracket and Alternator housing is Aluminum and the block is Steel..(what the Hell were they thinking?)

When you go to reinstall the brackets, go to the hardware store and get some aluminum wire compound, and coat everywhere the mount hardware meets steel (bolts, mount surfaces Ect..)

Next get some Wire Braid, (Radio Shack, Or you can make it from standard RG 8 Coax cable braid , it may be cheaper..) and install braid from the radiator support to the frame, Fenderwells to frame , hood to firewall, Doors to door posts, gas flap to body, tailgate / Trunk to body.

At each point the wire is grounded, Burnish ALL the paint and grease off to bare metal. Use a proper star-washer and lock. Use sheetmetal or Tech screws where no screws are available.

It sounds like a lot of work, but after you assemble all the parts, it's only a few hours to do..and you'll end up with a system that will work reliably for many years to come..and can eliminate that from your troubleshooting list.

< End Cut and Paste:>

The Story you have just read is true....The names were changed to protect the innocent...On Jan 03...Electrical Court was held in the city of Virtural...In a moment..The results of that trial...Dum~DE~Dum~Dum....

If this doesn't cure the problem..I know a Vodoo priest that can charm the gremlins out..That or it's a fuel or air problem..

Doc
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Old 01-19-2006, 05:11 AM
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barnym17, i have a tach... but no manual trans, and i don't wanna try that stunt in traffic no more, too scary...

doc, i'll be back in a weeks time when i have read your message... just kidding... I have no point in "dizzy" (new word i have learned), but it has been earlyer, yes. DVOM... yes, gotta get me one of those... And i have no vacuum advance at dizzy.

I will print out your "check up's" and do some testing on the coil. The electrical system is crap, that i already know, but you had some good point there. I'll be back later... great job Doc!
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