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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2011, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsongrass1
Racing will quickly tell you "straight ahead" is never the fastest set up. Tire appreciate the added heat from a slight attack angle. It doesn't adversly affect tire wear as much as it sounds.

Toe out is usually a good thing for it makes the car more stable feeling at speed.
Dang...now you tell me...I always heard to run a slight toe in for stability.

I set mine up w/ 1/8" toe in.

My alignment goal is straight line stability and no tramlining at 70 mph; and I-40 mountain curves thru NC at 70mph.

Mine is dialed in with:

Camber = -0.7, -0.7
Caster = +4.2, +4.36
Toe = +0.11 toe in

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsongrass1
Racing will quickly tell you "straight ahead" is never the fastest set up. Tire appreciate the added heat from a slight attack angle. It doesn't adversly affect tire wear as much as it sounds.

Toe out is usually a good thing for it makes the car more stable feeling at speed.
I must disagree, toe-in is generally considered a more stable setting going straight at speed for most rwd cars. Toe out is great for initial turn-in for autocross and circle track, but will cause instability and over sensitivity to steering inputs at speed.

It never ceases to amaze me how much the tires will twist the turn plates making it dificult to pull the lock pins out when there is more than about 1/8" toe in or out on a car. I have got to the point I can quite nearly guess how much toe in a car has just by how hard the lock pins come out of the plate after running the vehicle onto them. Toe setting is critical for optimum tire wear.

Andy
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:12 AM
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AOSBORN, Your comment on lock pins on the turn plates.
I use a set of turn plates, but i cant drive onto them. I have to jack my car up and slide them under the wheels, thus causing the lock pins to be a little hard to remove ( due to suspension settle)
Does this sound ok ??

Thanks for your comments and advice on this subject.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2011, 10:18 PM
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The lock pins example is really only a demonstration of what the affect of what excessive toe does to a tire that is rolling down the road.

While I feel it is much better to drive onto the turn plates because the suspension is truly settled in at ride height, setting the car on them will work (set the shocks to full soft if you can and bounce the suspension in throughly). Even when making adjustments on the front end, I don't like to jack the car up any more than necessary (and some times it is necessary).

I have some 2x12's about 18" long that have an angle cut onto one end that I place up against my turnplates so I can drive up on them. I have a matching pair for the rear tires to keep the car level. When the car is in postion to be aligned, place two of the boards up against the front tires and the turnplates up tight to the boards with everything centered on the tires. Then I use a long straight edge (the edge of my toe guage) to square the turnplates to each other. Place the rear boards about a foot in front of the rear tires. Get in the car, back up about a foot and then drive up onto the boards both front and rear (don't hit the brakes until you are on all four boards, it takes a little practice). With the front wheels on the turn plates and past the front boards, you will still be on the rear boards. Put the car in neutral and center it on the turn plates, lock the brake pedal and you are ready to align.

Hope this helps,
Andy
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:04 AM
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Andy,yes that helps, thanks.
I have thought of that but just kept jacking it up and sliding them under.
I have always bounced on it several times to get the suspension to settle.
All 4 corners.
I just wonder if it makes any diff. either way?????

Roger
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2011, 10:35 AM
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I have found that the readings are more consistent when you drive the car on the turnplates. It depends a lot on the stiffness of the dampners (shocks) and any stiction of the control arm bushings. A little bit of height difference can make a significant difference in getting a good camber reading.

Andy
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2011, 09:57 AM
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Road trip

I took road trip to test DIY alighnment.
67 mustang w/ manual unisteer rack.

DIY settings:
Camber = -0.7, -0.7
Caster = +4.2, +4.36
Toe = +0.11 toe in

Goal: 70mph stability

Test 1: grooved bridge I-75 MM 72 Loudon.
Car used to tram line over this bridge but did fine this trip.

Test 2: Straight line tracking at 70mph.
Car used to wonder but now firmly tracks straight ahead.
Had this car for decades; it has never tracked this well.

Result: The high speed stability and return to center is perfect w/ above DIY settings. Low speed steering effort is a bit hard but ok for me.

I would not run more than 4 caster w/ manual rack. Lower caster reduces low speed steering effort at expense of straight line tracking.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:17 AM
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I just happened to think of something. Radial tires are much more forgiving than the original bias poly tires that the car originally came out with. Perhaps the alignment specs would change with the difference between them.
Either way, the ultimate outcome of the DIY alignment will be realized after a few thousand miles by the tread wear. If I were you, I would stay on top of the tread wear with a tread wear gauge on both front tires from sidewall to sidewall, and write it down about every thousand miles for future reference. If would be a shame to enjoy good tracking and handling at the expense of uneven tire wear after 10-15K miles.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2011, 12:41 AM
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when i rebuilt my front end i needed to get it to an alignment shop. i used a string line off the rear wheel (if its good enuff for NASCAR crews in a pinch, who am i to argue?) and then i made a jig to touch top and bottom of front rim and have a flat surface for a 16" level. seemed to work well and drive straight and then the alignment guy said it was surprisingly (or was that "amazingly"?) close to spec. of course in my mind i heard him say "it was dead on but i can't say that and make any money"

btw, just FYI, my g/f has a 95 jag X300 that has no adjustable camber.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:34 AM
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some newer cars don't have camber adjustment...guess they are built w/ such precision camber is dead on spec...long as you don't crash.
some car nuts modify their cars to allow camber adjustment for performance cornering.

my first diy toe alignment involved a string off rear wheel...car was very squirrely going to alignment shop. thinking back my problem was likely because i did not unload suspension stress after lowering car to floor.
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