Do I really need the choke? (Holley 4165 DP) - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 08:43 AM
PelleX's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Do I really need the choke? (Holley 4165 DP)

Hello all,

do I really need the choke on a Holley 4165 DP spreadbore?
I got it secondhand, but didn't get all the choke parts. Will pumping the acc pumps be enough to prime the engine and get it started?
This carb has the wide "anti-pullover" acc pump nozzles, do they shoot straight down the throttle bores like normal ones?

I don't mind babying a cold engine for the first few kilometers, as long as it doesn't die all the time. I bought this carb thinking I'd use it while saving up for some brand new carb, if I don't like it.

It's for my soon-to-be-finished Chevy 350 with good alum heads, 9.8 CR, GMPP 10185063 ZZ4 alum 2-plane EGR intake, Comp XE262 cam, 1.6 rockers, 1-5/8" headers, 2x2.5" exhaust, MSD 6AL ignition.

I'll use it in my '79 Chevy Caprice Coupé. For some reason I'm also putting a TKO 5-speed in it.
(It must be an obsession, or bad voodoo. Anyone else with the same problem?)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 08:54 AM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
It will start but for warm up cold weather driving you will be much better off with a functional choke. Which model of 4165 Spreadbore do you have? The most common was the 6210 and finding the mnissing pieces for it or one similar shouldn't be too hard. Most 4165's used a divorced choke but a few "performance" models had a hand choke and dual feed float bowls with center hung floats. Finding choke parts for one of these is a lot harder.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 10:25 AM
PelleX's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the input!

It's a 6210-2, side hung.

Hm, I guess I could put the carb on, but keep looking for the parts I need to give it some manners.

By the way, what do people think of the 4165?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 11:41 AM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
It's a decent reliable carb and easy to work on but I like the QuadraJet it was designed to replace better. Most people that bought them originally were bolting them on stock 350's because they were afraid to tackle a Q-Jet rebuild and complained about getting worse gas mileage than the Q-Jet which wasn't so much a carb flaw but rather improper application. Put a fully mechanical 4 barrel on where a vacuum secondary carb had been on a bone stock daily driver and unless you adjust your driving style you're going to be into the secondaries a lot more and using more gas. Although the Q-Jet will still get better mileage when tuned properly you have to have the patience of a Saint to tune a Q-Jet.

Check the base plate for slop between the throttle shafts and plate and put a straight edge across the baseplate to check for warpage. What choke pieces are missing? You can often find one with a warped baseplate pretty cheap and get the pieces you need off of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 11:46 AM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 33
Posts: 3,485
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
its not even worth trying to get a carburetor to work in the cold without a functional choke. I've had mine unhooked this winter and didn't get around to adjusting the cold idle until recently. It was such a pain to get that thing started in the cold weather that I'll never go back. Had to crank the damned thing for like 5 minutes to get it going, so much so that it would almost kill the battery every time. Do yourself a favor and don't be like me. Get your choke parts together and spend the 5 minutes hooking it all up. It will pay great dividends of improved drivabilty.

K
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 12:07 PM
PelleX's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hippie, thanks again for the info, hm, there is some slop in the secondary throttle shaft. Not very much, but there's definitely slop. Disaster?

Actually I really don't know what parts are missing, I've got the fast idle cam, the thingy that pivots, and the vacuum bell that pulls the fast idle pivot when the engine starts (or so I figure). I'll have to check this out properly.

I do have the old Q-jet, it looks like something from a coal mine. Would you advise me to rebuild it (and find out if my patience is saintlike)?
There's about as much slop in the Q-jet primary as in the 4156 secondary shaft.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 12:14 PM
PelleX's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks Killer, got the point... Well, I figure they put it on for some reason in the first place. Do you think I'll get by in summertime? Like above 5 deg C/40 deg F?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 01:10 PM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelleX
Hippie, thanks again for the info, hm, there is some slop in the secondary throttle shaft. Not very much, but there's definitely slop. Disaster?

I've read that up to 1/32" ( 0.75mm) play is acceptable so a little is OK.

Beside what you listed plus the choke butterfly and linkage arm that's about all the choke linkage these have, the rest is a seperate assembly that mounts on the manifold. Try to get your hands on a parts illustration for one. If you can't find one let me know and I can scan it and post it in my photo gallery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 01:16 PM
killerformula's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Carburetor
Last journal entry: Clean up
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northeast
Age: 33
Posts: 3,485
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 13
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
40 degrees is still a bit to ask a muscle car to start in with no choke. You'd still be doing some cranking. I immagine I'll close my choke in 60,70 or even 80 degree weather just for ease of starting. I usually let my stuff warm up for a couple minutes before driving.

K
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 01:18 PM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelleX
Thanks Killer, got the point... Well, I figure they put it on for some reason in the first place. Do you think I'll get by in summertime? Like above 5 deg C/40 deg F?
The choke on my kid's Monte isn't hooked up and it starts OK but won't go for a few minutes, I ordered the parts for it Tuesday. Last night it died on me as I was pulling across a 2 lane highway with a semi coming from each direction I should have let it warm up a little longer, I got it started and moving again but it still got my heart pumping............ The choke parts for it should be here tonight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 03:31 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: victoria
Age: 24
Posts: 26
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Are the Q Jets any good? I just bought a rebuild Q jet for 30 dollars did i get ripped of?

Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 06:58 PM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared88
Are the Q Jets any good? I just bought a rebuild Q jet for 30 dollars did i get ripped of?

Thanks
The uninitiated still call them "Quadra Junks" but anyone that has taken the time to work with one and really learn what makes them tic usually falls in love with them or at the very least has a deep respect for them. They were truly a marvel of engineering.

If it's a non-electronic version, it's all there and in good mechanical condition you got a good deal but unless it's someone I know really well I don't trust other people's "rebuilds", especially auto part chain store "Remanufactured" carbs. I have seen some real butcher jobs over the years. That's why I finally took the "leap" and started working on them myself. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I've had some success, enough that a Q-Jet will always be my 1st choice in carburetors whenever possible. I used to be a hater until a friend showed me a few things and turned me on to Doug Roe's book. I spent a coupole weeks tuning on one and got it dialed in to the "Nth" degree. SWEET!!!! I let a friend "borrow" it to see if his carb was his problem, evidently it was and I never got mine back. I recently started laying in new a supply of cores and parts carbs so I can build another one for my 454 project.

IF you have the patience to work on one and tune it properly they are the next best thing to fuel injection for a street driven vehicle. They can be quite intimidating to a beginner but get a copy of Doug Roe's "Rochester Carburetors" and a junk Q-Jet or 2 to practice tearing down and reassembling a few times and you'll see they really aren't all that bad. You'll want the junkers for parts too.

Another thing about them is the deep wailing moan they make at wide open throttle with an open element air cleaner. You can literally hear it a couple miles away on a clear quiet night. I love the sound of a Q-Jet at full tilt on a really healthy motor!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2005, 07:51 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: victoria
Age: 24
Posts: 26
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippie
The uninitiated still call them "Quadra Junks" but anyone that has taken the time to work with one and really learn what makes them tic usually falls in love with them or at the very least has a deep respect for them. They were truly a marvel of engineering.

If it's a non-electronic version, it's all there and in good mechanical condition you got a good deal but unless it's someone I know really well I don't trust other people's "rebuilds", especially auto part chain store "Remanufactured" carbs. I have seen some real butcher jobs over the years. That's why I finally took the "leap" and started working on them myself. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I've had some success, enough that a Q-Jet will always be my 1st choice in carburetors whenever possible. I used to be a hater until a friend showed me a few things and turned me on to Doug Roe's book. I spent a coupole weeks tuning on one and got it dialed in to the "Nth" degree. SWEET!!!! I let a friend "borrow" it to see if his carb was his problem, evidently it was and I never got mine back. I recently started laying in new a supply of cores and parts carbs so I can build another one for my 454 project.

IF you have the patience to work on one and tune it properly they are the next best thing to fuel injection for a street driven vehicle. They can be quite intimidating to a beginner but get a copy of Doug Roe's "Rochester Carburetors" and a junk Q-Jet or 2 to practice tearing down and reassembling a few times and you'll see they really aren't all that bad. You'll want the junkers for parts too.

Another thing about them is the deep wailing moan they make at wide open throttle with an open element air cleaner. You can literally hear it a couple miles away on a clear quiet night. I love the sound of a Q-Jet at full tilt on a really healthy motor!!!!

Thanks for the help, the carb has been rebuild by somebody i no did it properly. It is the fully mechanical verion. Where would I find Doug Roe's Book on Q jEts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2005, 02:47 AM
PelleX's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey Hippie, that sound part alone will make me keep the Q-jet and try my patience at it!

About how much horsepower do they support? Mine must be one of the last non-computer ones, it the stock carb for a '79 car.

And thanks all for the warnings of cold-engine horror. While I do miss the babying part from the bikes a little (a manly procedure, don't you think?), I understand an engine weighing more than my bike did will need some warming up...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2005, 08:05 AM
Member
 

Last journal entry: 454
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: kentucky,florence
Age: 39
Posts: 135
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree with Hippie.As far as spreadbore carbs go there is nothing better than a well tuned quadrajet.But as he stated you must be patient and learn how to tune one properly.It took me a few times to get one right but now the one that I just put on my fresh 350 screams.There are a few tricks to know and there is a lot of info about them here on the internet.If you got the time and patience work on one while your running the holley then bolt on the q-jet and tune it till you get it right.There is nothing that sounds better than the 800 cfm q-jet at full throttle trust me I know from first hand experience!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Holley electric choke adjustment wheel-7 Engine 5 04-27-2005 09:21 AM
Holley Choke jrm123180 Engine 1 08-23-2004 11:57 AM
Holley choke set screw lluciano77 Engine 11 08-05-2004 10:20 PM
Adding choke to holley carb rnix999 Engine 0 06-13-2004 11:35 PM
Holley Elec. Choke Echofive Engine 0 01-25-2004 08:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.