where areyou going to get tnt anyway? by the way, xylene is available from the hardware store, its paint stripper, a gallon costs over 10 dollars, but thats supposed to jack your octane somewhat

What ever happened to good ole fashen tuning? But if you gotta add something then try KLOTZ. I used it in race engines with no problem. It is an oxygenated fuel which is what you need to make more power. I usually mixed it 60% with 93 octane fuel. It kinda works like nitrous that you pour in. check out these links and good luck. Anyone got a bomb suit ?

http://www.klotzlube.com/

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/special/oxy2.html

Hand me that match so I can look in my gas tank

See this is just contemplation, instead of taking a "thoughtless and polarised stand".

It's a bit like looney tunes ideas around satanisim.... the pentagram with goats head, was only sketched out by Samuel Moore about 200 years ago... and yet all the "frightened sheep" run around in hysterics as if a few marks on paper have real power, and as if it was mystic symbolisim from time immemorial....

Well back to the TNT in motor fuel.

Since TNT is loaded into artillery shells and all sorts of things, its fairly safe to handle.

What I would do is finely grate say 100 grams of TNT and then divide the gratings into little 1 gram heaps.

And assuming that the TNT dissolves into the fuel........

(test and evaluate)

Then I would say set up a cheap industrial 4 stroke engine - e.g. a cheap generator (2000 Watts@ 240V); then I would attach a series of switchable loads..... e.g. say 1 radiant bar heater @ 1500 watts and then 10 x 100 watt globes to exceed the power output of the generator by 30-40%.

Then I would attach an O2 sensor into the exhaust pipe of the engine...

I would run the engine on straight fuel and then when it is fully warmed up and running nice... and then progressively switch in loads untill it starts to begin to slow down.. I'd measure the O2 content of the exhaust gas, and this would give me my base line peak power output in watts and the O2 content of the exhaust.

And since I gather that TNT may be formulated to give a slighty "rich mixture" (more fuel that nitraters or oxidisers) the O2 sensor may give some interesting to neutral readings.

And I would mix up fuel batches of 100 ml and with varying proportions of TNT, starting at 1% or 1 gram per 99 ml of fuel, and then run the engine on that.

I'd test different batches of fuel going in 1% increments of TNT concentrations.

2 grams TNT - 98 Ml of fuel, 3 grams TNT - 97ml of fuel etc...

(or go in 0.25 or 0.5 gram steps with the TNT)


And assuming the generator was rated to 2000watts, and the engine started to slow down (run out of puff) with 2400watts of resistive load, I'd be seeing if the amount of load applied to the engine, could be varied (increased) with the increases of TNT in the fuel.

My guess is that since TNT burns like a fuel in open air....... that there may be no real power increase.

However I speculate that there may (I said MAY) be a point that combinations of pressure and temperature and TNT concentrations MAY be enough to create detonation as opposed to combustion, and the engine may be able to handle small widely dispersed (within the combustion chamber) explosions.... and or it may not.

(for example: It's not weather you have added nitro glycerine to the fuel, it's HOW much have you added - that will determine weather the car goes a little bit better, a bit harder, real hard, blows the pistons and head gaskets, or the reaction detonates right back to the fuel tank)


I'd also have a guess that the reaction MAY be quite different if the TNT could be dissolved into Diesel fuel, and used in a HIGH compression Diesel engine.... (pressure - temperature - shockwaves)


Or as a secondary thought, although I will qualify this as conjecture as opposed to fact, I specualte that perhaps if some TNT could be dissolved in fuel, that if thouroughly mixed in, and left to sit for some time in a big glass jar, that it may settle into fractions (layers), and some or one of these may be able to be a useful "power booster" in gasolene engines......

I'd be curious to try this, but I do not have access to TNT and I don't have a cheap spare generator...

But if some one does and has and can, please post the result... I'd like to see the result/s.


"Qualify an opinion and state the fact" - Shane T. Hanson 1965.

TNT is dangerious and i think we can all agree on that point. Would anyone see the power advantages that could possibly arise from this to out weigh the possibility of explosion, even in just storing the stuff in your garage. On the other hand if it did prove to add alot of power it would be a shame having not tried it, but i think chemisty is against us on this one. Also has anyone even surmised that there could be more power in the gasoline that has yet to be realized. Like when you see flames shooting from a drag cars pipes couldnt that fire be put to the road instead of out the pipes.

I don't agree with bascially anything you have got to say - TNT is not dangerous, and it's safe to have sitting around.

It's my opinion that you appear to have neither the back ground, the qualifications nor the experience in chemistry, science, engineering or explosives; to be classing heresay and specualtion as fact.

I'd say that people and labs have tried all sorts of things, and assuming that TNT could be dissolved in petrol, well I'd raise the point of would if offer any real benefit in power - and as it is a whole compound - meaning that it does not add to the power of petrol, as it is it's own nitrator / oxidiser and fuel, would the cost of it vs the possible benefits (if any) and the possible toxicity of it and it's by products; and the additional cost to the fuel as well as issues of stability etc., make it worth while.


The main use of TNT is to shatter rock, because the cost of the TNT used, is much lower than that of the time and equipment to chip the rock out....

So there are many subtlies here. and another is that if TNT were an effective power booster, it would not be acting as a focal point detonation, it woudl be seriously diluted with fuel, and the fuel would be atomised and diluted with air and the air would be compressed and ignited in a combustion chamber.

And if it did detonate in a vaporous and diluted form, would it simply be a knocking agent and cause the equivalent of a super crap low octane fuel in a high compression engine...?

Again - the explosion (if any), would be through out the entire volume of the combustion chamber, and it's the relative strength of the explosion that would determine weather is was an excellent combustion booster and source of power in it's own right, or weather it is an inconsequential addative or

It may produce only 1 of two conditions... a pointless fuel additive that does nothing, and once a certain amount is added to the fuel - it simply detonates in the combustion chamber with sufficient force to ruin the engine.

I also recall that during WWII, the girls in the UK who had to fill the shells (anti-aircraft etc) with (I recall) TNT, were all told at the start of it, that the TNT would cause them to become sterile and incapable of having children and this turned out to be true.

So there may be many issues that surround the POSSIBLE use of it as a fuel additive - that have may have lead it to be dismissed as unsuitable..... (for what ever reason) so there are two choices - either undertake meticilious scientific type anaylisis yourself or ask qualified people who have., and when you have the results in hard copy, come back here and post them for all to see.




"Qualify an opinion and state the fact" - Shane T. Hanson 1965.

Adding explosives to gasoline??? Sounds pretty irresponsible to me.
But if you really want a boost ... why not try "avgas" commonly called aviation fuel. Piston driven aircraft use it and it is either 100 or 110 octane. Of course that hot a octane means a lot hotter engine and exhaust. I suspect that it might even cause damage to catalytic converters.

Well I don't know for sure but when I was in the engine program at Faith Motorsports, the old timers use to tell us to mix marvel mystery oil to airplane fuel. The old timers told me that the fuel is rough on valve seats and guides in an automotive engine and that racing fuel has additives for lubrication of valve guides and seats. I don't know if this is true but I can say that I know of some teams that have run this fuel and didn't hurt the engine. Although before the end of the season, They had a head related failure. (Such as dropping a valve, usually from a valve hanging in the guide and the piston coming up and smacking the valve until it broke the piston head)
We ran the correct fuel with the exception of KLOTZ fuel for qualifying. Changed the valvesprings every 6 races, new oil every race, new plugs, as well as jet changing and valve lash for different conditions. That's what I had said earlier about good ole fashoned tuning. If you have a solid lift camshaft then that is the best tuning you can have. I usually have 16 different lash adjustments for my race engines unless they have the lifter bores bushed. Then they usually fall within .001" of each other. It takes a degree wheel and all night but you can check every lobe to find out where the lift points are for each cyl. Usually .002" gives you about a degree in a small block chevy. And other methods are that since we had to use a dual plane manifold, We would run 3 different rocker ratio's. 1.5's on the exhaust, 1.6's on 3-5-4-6, and 1.65's on 1-7-2-8. These results came from Late Model Stock 355 cid 2 bbl carb. I made 362 hp and 417 lb ft from a 350 cfm carb and 355 cid.
What I am trying to say is that if there was a benefit from some mixture then someone would have already done it. I read alot about Smokey Yunik and would recommend others do as well. He had been paid to blow up engines for years and I would think that if anyone would have thought of or tried it, It would have been him. Anyhow, I like the ideas and facts that have been posted here. I learned and laughed alot!

I think it will be cheaper to buy an octane boost for your gas than it would to soak 36 sticks of dynamite in your tank (not sure the cost, but unless your a miner it may be hard to come by)

I am a licensed blaster, and I can tell you idiots to stop thinking about this stuff. Especially the guy who suggested "grating" the TNT into a powder.

If you want to see what happens to people who experiment without the proper knowledge, go here;

www.darwinawards.com

I've spent a fair number of years working in the Navy with explosives, and the concept of adding any thing like TNT or any other secondary form of high explosive reaches so far into stupid that I would wish to be your beneficiary! A few pertinent facts first, before you start playing with any explosive. The difference between a gasoline BURN and a TNT explosion is time. Gasoline is considered a low deflagration rate explosive, this means it is closer to a burn then a detonation which what high explosives do. This gasoline ‘explosion’ is a strong, but slower, and a more controlled release of energy then a high explosive will have, thus the engine doesn’t become shrapnel! A gasoline energy release cycle (burn) takes place over hundreds of milliseconds per unit, and that unit is made up of a compressed vapor in a small space. It contains less energy then the surrounding material needs to undergo what we used to call Catastrophic Structural Failure. (i.e.: it went boom and pieces flew off.) Any high explosive on the other hand is a high or very high deflagration rate explosive, this means it changes from a solid to hot gases in about 3 milliseconds, and the resulting blast has a very high speed of gas flow that hits the surrounding structure so fast, and so hard it causes the material to literally shatter! There is almost no way to control this rate of energy without needing a chemical lab and a lot of money, and it’s been studied by all militaries around the world for decades. By the way, if you had high explosive in the fuel line, the high order detonation would go right back to the fuel tank so fast as to rip the fuel line apart, and the resulting mess is one of those things that can get you a Darwin Award! Trying to jack up the power in gasoline with explosives sounds sexy, but its just not do able! Now a side note here, while in the service, we experimented with fuel-air explosive systems and it was an interesting note, that 1 gallon of gasoline, IF perfectly converted to vapor, and mixed correctly with air, has enough energy potential to equal 15-16 sticks of 60% construction dynamite, (the 60% relates to the percentage of Nitro to inert material making up the sticks of explosive.) There an incredible amount of power in the gasoline, guys, learn to tap that, and you will have more then power to make the old sled haul!

Hmmm one of the joys of being Gay and Christian and having a brain damaged drunk for a president, is that if the USA survives WWIII, it will prove that not only am I smarter than every one else, it will also prove that I am right.

If TNT was soluble in petrol, and by starting of with very small amounts diluted into lots of petrol, it would be worth doing performance evaluations (i.e. Lab, Generator, variable loads and record chart / graph) to see if and what effect slowly increased (tiny) amounts of TNT blended into the fuel would actually have and do.

And since none of the "radical feminists" and their hysterical opinions have actually done this, or NON of them have any qualifications in chemistry and engineering and the design and construction of detonatiors, explosives and munitions - and I do and have., how about you sulking wenches go and do what I have suggested, in a methodical and scientific fashion, then come back with an opinion based upon fact from proven experience.


Also not one of you woossy sit down to pee genius's, have ever differentiated that the guy who started this post, said, "On several ocassions I've heard of soaking TNT in gas to leach out the nitro-gliserin as a way of getting more power".

TNT does not contain nitroglycerine, I gather he means dissolving TNT in petrol or soaking dynamite in petrol to leach out the nitroglycerine......


The Goods on it:

(note the words ignition & friction, and percussion and detonation)

Trinitrotoluene (TNT) TNT is a crystalline substance. The importance of TNT as a military explosive is based upon its relative safety in manufacture, loading, transportation, and stowage, and upon its explosive properties. Manufacturing yields are high and production relatively economical. The chemical names for TNT are trinitrotoluene and trinitrotol. Other (commercial) names are Trilite, Tolite, Trinol, Trotyl, Tritolol, Tritone, Trotol, and Triton. TNT is toxic, odorless, comparatively stable, nonhygroscopic, and relatively insensitive. When TNT is pure, it is known as grade A TNT and varies from white to pale yellow. When the proportion of impurities is much greater, the color is darker, often brown, and the chemical is known as grade B TNT. It maybe ignited by impact, friction, spark, shock, or heat. TNT does not form sensitive compounds with most metals. The melting point varies between 80.6°C for grade A (refined TNT) and 76°C for grade B (crude TNT). TNT does not appear to be affected by acids but is affected by alkalies (lye, washing soda, and so on), becoming pink, red, or brown, and more sensitive. It is practically insoluble in water, but soluble in alcohol, ether, benzene, carbon disulfide, acetone, and certain other solvents. The velocity of detonation is approximately 22,300 fps. Exudate has been known to separate from cast TNT. It may appear pale yellow to brown and may vary in consistency from an oily liquid to a sticky substance. The amount and rate of separation depend primarily upon the purity of the TNT and, secondarily, upon the temperature of the stowage place. Grade B (low-melting point) TNT may exude considerable liquid and generate some gas. This exudation is accelerated with an increase in temperature. Pure TNT will not exude since exudate consists of impurities that have not been extracted in the refining process. Exudate is a mixture of lower melting isomers of TNT, nitrocompounds of toluene of lower nitration, and possible nitrocompounds of other aromatic hydrocarbons and alcohols. It is flammable and has high sensitivity to percussion when mixed with absorbents. Its presence does no appreciable harm to the stability but somewhat reduces the explosive force of the main charge. In some ammunition, an inert wax pad is used in the loading operation, and, in some cases, waxy material may ooze from the case. It should not be confused with the TNT exudate previously described. This material should, however, be tested for TNT to confirm its actual composition, TNT exudate, when mixed with a combustible material, such as wood chips, sawdust, or cotton waste, will form a low explosive that is highly flammable and ignites easily from a small flame. It can be exploded in a reamer similar to a low grade of dynamite, but the main danger is its fire hazard. Accumulation of exudate is considered a great risk of explosion and fire. Its accumulation should always be avoided by continual removal and disposal as it occurs. While TNT is no longer used in Navy gun ammunition, some 3"/50, 40-mm, and 20-mm stocks loaded with TNT may still be in the inventory. These stocks should be identified and checked periodically for the presence of exudate. The exudate is soluble in acetone or alcohol. One of these solvents (requiring adequate ventilation) or clean, hot water should be used to facilitate removal and disposal of the exudate. WARNING Under no circumstances should soap or other alkaline preparations be used to remove this exudate. The addition of a small amount of hydroxide, caustic soda, or potash will sensitize TNT and cause it to explode if heated to 160°F.


OK so TNT does dissolve in benzine and acetone (and petrol), and nitroglycerine can be leached out of dynamite...so the question is how much is enough and how much is too much?

I think if a a very small amount of TNT is added to fuel - if if merely burns it at an ideal % in the fuel, it ought to significantly increase the power - being a "whole energy source" - the question of detonation - and assuming if it does it would in varying low to high levels levels - it would firstly create an increase in power and then cause pinging (knocking) and in higher levels it may actually root the engine.

With nitroglycerine... Ummmm in very diluted form and in small amounts, I would be curious to test it... but looking at the history of nitroglycerine, well it's very sensitve to heat, friction, shock and impurites.

It detonates at 50*C and I'd experiment with it in a lab setting, in very dilute amounts in very small amounts of fuel...
in a generator from behind a safety screen.... and then scientifically evaluate it.....

But as a real world venture, I'd tend to steer clear of it.


So with the TNT, if a small test bed were set up, and proof testing the theory of being able to use TNT as a power booster - or sit down to pee and winge and snivel and speculate for the rest of your worthless lives.

"Qualify an opinion and state a fact" - Shane T. Hanson 1965

"Double the Fist"

Very informative Butt Weldor, but you might want to edit your post some so you don't sound like such a giant *********.


Mike

Doesn't adding sugar to gas make it crystallize????

I have always considerd that putting in the time and effort to research and learn and share QUALITY information makes one a better informed, more capable and indeed more interesting person, and it also gives one a better circle of friends.


As far as being a giant arsehole who has nothing better to do than sit around all day sucking lemons and then pulling faces at people - well I wouldn't know anything about that.



Yeah and it tastes better too....