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STATUTORY GRAPE 01-07-2006 02:13 PM

Does anybody here still use single stage paint anymore???
Does anyone ever still use acrylic enamel? I get a lot of calls for cheap paint jobs but it's hard to keep them "cheap" when you have to spend $500.00 for paint. By the time you ad labor costs, they don't want their vehicle painted anymore. Does anyone ever use single stage to keep the price affordable for people. Im tired of giving quotes and looking at vehicles when it's a waste of time and they don't call back. What gives :confused: I had a guy call and want to know how much I would charge to put a head gasket in an S-10 (2.2l) and I wasn't busy at the time so I told him I would do both head gaskets for $150 for labor (I figured 1 days work) and $100.00 for parts, so total of $250.00, he never called back. DOES HE WANT ME TO DO IT FOR FREE ???????????????. Does anyone else have this problem :pain:

beemdubya 01-07-2006 02:36 PM

I used to have the problem a while ago.. but since ive gotten my name out a little bit its not so much an issue.. you gotta be firm with ur prices though.. everytime i do a job for less then its worth i hate it the whole time im working on it.. also.. u can give to cheap of estimates and people will think that ur not giving them a quality job for the price.. i like to let people get estimates and then have them come back and beat the estimate. and sometimes with that u end up making a little more off the job then u wanted to.

as for the single stage.. depending on the color ill do a cheaper job in it.. i use mostly dupont products so ill use there ful-thane.. its urethane so u can buff it and basic colors are cheap little over a hundred bucks for a gallon with hardner and reducer usually.

But many times i will use nason bc/cc.. its cheap and i think alot more user friendly. i bought a quart of a pearl black last week and it was 15 bucks.. u compare that to house of kolors pearl black which is 65 a quart i beleive...

OneMoreTime 01-07-2006 02:59 PM

Single stage
Yes it is still used..use it a lot of times on industrial equipment and trucks..tractors and things like that..use some hardener and it buffs up nice..not like bc/cc job but certainly acceptable..

Getting a start is hard until you build some clientale..


kenseth17 01-07-2006 04:25 PM

yes and yes. Think you are always going to run into people that don't realize the cost of materials and amount of labor involved in this work and keep looking for the cheapest one to do it. After you put in a ton of hours on something you have done too cheap, you will know better next time, and unless you do it for your own enjoyment, you won't worry about getting the job and doing it so cheap next time. Once they call around to shops and get quotes of 5 grand at some places or are told, we don't do completes, maybe $500 in materials won't sound so bad if they are willing to stick any money into the car. I've done a few jobs and been doing side work the last few years, but still think you get mostly tire kickers, and people looking for the best price. Unless you get a referal from someone, then you are more likely to get the work if you are reasonable. But it does kinda suck writing out an estimate and guessing about how much materials are going to run for the job, only to not hear from them again. Answering someones questions I do know the answer to doesn't bother me too much. I would hope someone would do the same if I was asking about something I know little about, like say electrical. I do offer to paint single stage in solid colors only, as I've used omni single stage urethane on one of my own cars, and the price ain't bad and its been holding up well, but haven't used it on someone elses car since I started doing side work again a few years ago. I sprayed single stage enamels quite a bit in the 90's. I used centari back then with what I believe was called the performance pack, and painted my moms car in the schools booth ss metallic.
I've painted a few single stage metallics and it does take a little experience and skill to paint these and keep both metallic even and a nice gloss. Both important, and what you spray is what you get without having the ability to buff. This is one reason not having a booth I don't offer to spray it, if you did get a bit of dirt specks or run into a problem , you stuck with it, or repaint. At work they spray a lot of imron single stage still, not that I would call it a cheap paint, but we do mainly semis, big rigs.

STATUTORY GRAPE 01-07-2006 04:31 PM

Yeah, you guys both seem to be right. It's hard to get your name out there. I generally use PPG/Omni products and have had good luck. I feel the prices are fair, just hard to convince customers. I had another person email me last week and said they wanted a cheap paint job on their daughters car and didn't want to spend over $700.00 so I asked them to email me some pics of the car so I knew what type of work I'd be doing, rust issues, dents, etc.... and they didn't get back to me. If they don't really have it in their mind that they want the car painted, WHY ARE THEY LOOKING FOR ESTIMATES? P.S. If I painted tractors I'd be using single stage too. Could you imagine sanding and buffing a TRACTOR :thumbup:

1957plymouthhemi 01-07-2006 04:46 PM

Back when I was running my garage I go through spurts where it seemed like I was a magnet for every tire kicker in the state, most wanting a turnkey hot rod built for $5000, INCLUDING PARTS. Most are still dreaming and driving their late model POS.

It just seems to come in cycles. Just hang in there. :cool:

kenseth17 01-07-2006 04:47 PM

Yes I can. I've sanded big fricken tankers at one job, and this one do alot of sanding of semi's and tractor trailers. The worse part are all the rivets, I can't imagine if you tried to buff, think you would be just as well off to repaint with all the rivets. I've only been at my present job a few months, and already doing a lot more then another guy they hired at the same time. But he is much younger and think everything he has done at home. The shop manager asks me this past week, have you ever buffed before. I said yes, a lot. The painter painted a semi I repaired cracks on the fenders, and after they painted it, they moved it outside and the paint wasn't well cured and it started raining. Had to repaint. Well anyways, I had to go help the painter buff it, I only had to do one of the fenders and was a little worn out just doing that. Reaching in the crotch area of where the wheelwell and fender meet was a pain trying to reach and not hit the fenders area with the handle of the buffer, and had to be a contortionist.

STATUTORY GRAPE 01-07-2006 05:04 PM

That's what's nice about coming here, people know what I'm talking about. When you try talking to people who don't do this type of work, all they do is agree but they really don't mean it :pain: I advertise in a small town where I live and I think sometimes people are just nosy and call to see who it is. My brother drives semi and last year he bought a newer one and hit a deer with it. I wanted to paint it but he took it somewhere else, the guy did a crappy job, he painted certain spots with BC/CC and tried to blend it with the rest and you can see the difference, bad overspray,then he didn't even buff it he just left that awful looking overspray on it. What town are you from Kenseth, I'm near LaCrosse. First time I seen anyone that close to me. :thumbup:

BarryK 01-07-2006 05:07 PM

I was in a shop in Texas last year with a jobber and this guy does mostly all overs paint jobs. he loves S10 or Nissan type pickups as he can do one in a day.

He had a unique approach. He wrote the estimate on the truck to the point of sanded primer.
He had a preprinted sheet that said I can put at my cost $35 of paint on your truck or as high as $900 and some dollars of paint on your truck.

The sheet listed three colors in the cheap enamel and the price and did the same with the $900 system, the explanation stated the 900 system is what you would expect on a BMW or a Mercedes and the 35-50 dollar system
on a Maaco or a used car special.

"You pick the $ bracket anywhere in between these prices and add to your estimate and I will explain the quality you will get at the price you chose."

The jobber said he was always busy and the owner of the shop said most would ask for $300-500 of materials be used.

All he was doing was educating the consumer and when educated they will make a good choice.

48ChryslerRodder 01-07-2006 05:34 PM

I still use Centari acrylic enamel on my own stuff. I learned to paint with enamels and have had good results. Centari also makes a clear coat you can spray over single stage. It takes a lot of good prep work to get good results, also a lot of practice and patience. Never rush paint jobs, it will always show.

kenseth17 01-07-2006 06:04 PM

I am from green bay grape, the same town as a particular football team that could only manage to win 4 games this year. I do somewhat of that if someone asks about a paint job, but that is a unique way to write it barry. I explain that the life expectancy on a single stage paint job isn't as long because of the way clear adds added uv protection, and that in single stage some colors may fade quicker then others, and the fact that depending on what pigments and additives such as pearl, ect determine the price of the color. I also state that one of the budget lines of base clear doesn't have the life expectancy of one of the upper lines either. How do you really know though. I haven't been able to compare say omni against deltron side by side years down the road and with all the different brands of products, you may be getting just as good of product as something you are paying much for. How many cars does someone see 15 years down the road, and able to put it against various other brands that old also. Then add to that products may have changed over that time. At one time a few years ago when I decided to do somethings at home. I put on my website something like single stage paint from such to such, budget base/clear from such and such, and upper line base clear from such and such, and figured they would ask more based on their budget. I did put a pretty low price though, but I did get a few emails afterwards. I also stated that it is for sand and shoot only, and additional bodywork extra, and large vehicles may be extra, and so on. Ended up painting the mustang in my gallery at that time, mainly because of what it was. Had one car I was doing bodywork on in the garage, and he brought it down before I was able to get the work I was doing on the other car done, and had them both sitting here. Had to talk him up to the budget base clear. I did the job at way to low a price, and it was much more work then I envisioned when I got into it. Live and learn.
What little work i've gotten or tooken has been mostly through my website, but compared to the amount of emails, the amount of jobs I've done is small. I read up on a little on html and search engine submission and keywords. Many of the emails come from a distance too. I've had some as far away as minnesota, but if you are not long established and don't have a big reputation, makes you wonder why someone is asking that far other then shopping around for price. I have gotten some work from referrals. Just keep doing the best work you can grape, and keep track of who you have done work for and pictures, and hopefully things will grow for you and customers won't worry so much about price. Sounds like you are a lot like me at this point, how long you been doing work for others? The nice thing about having a full time job and just doing it on the side, is you don't have to take work. Your job takes care of the bills and you can get more experience working for and dealing with customers, and if it just so happens that someday you are beating them off with a stick while they have blank checks in there hand and aren't concerned all that much about price, then you can think of going full time and the extra hassles you have when you are doing it full time as a business. Its nice when you don't worry about having to get work in your door or you will be out on the street.

antiquecar 01-07-2006 06:58 PM

Your comments are most interesting. I don't want a BC/CC put on my cars be cause they are early antiques. To me cars built in the teens and twenties just do not look right with a BC/CC. They are too good. If you are looking for business go to the average guy who has an antique. I know guys with Packards and Rolls who stay away from the BC/CC because it over restores the car. Just one old mans opinion.
:pimp: Jan

STATUTORY GRAPE 01-07-2006 10:33 PM

4 Attachment(s)
I've been doing side work for approx 3-4 years. Up until then I just done my own stuff. Here's some pics of some of my stuff: The red and black boat is the one I currently have, I painted the red on it. The other boat was my old one, I freehanded the "350 MAGNUM" and " NO DISIPLINE" onto masking tape, cut out with razor and painted :mwink: . The Vette is the first whole vehicle paint job I done quite a few years ago now, I still have it too :thumbup: .When someone wants to see my work I show them that. The blue truck was one of my brothers I done for FREE, when working beside him for that whole time we got along like this :boxing: . Hey 48CHRYSLER, Hows everything in Beloit? My brother used to work there at the BELOIT CORP, until they went out of bussiness, then he moved. We done a lot of waterskiing on the Rock River.

shoddy_f-body 01-08-2006 10:04 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I still use it sometimes. Not every car needs or wants a mirror bc/cc finish. I use flattened centari a lot for underhood/firewall/chassis paint.Heres a few pics of my last Centari job. The car did not warrant a fancy bc/cc paint job and the owner was happy with the $100 he had to spend on a gallon of paint.
A few years ago i did an all over on a early 90's BMW. It was straight white. I used Coventry acrylic enamel ($50 a gallon) with Centari hardener. It laid out so nice and flat no one would believe it was cheap enamel. Just so happened that the owner of a shop up the street stopped in to snoop around, as he was checking out the BMW he asked what kind of clear i used on it. I told him Dupont 7500 :D

STATUTORY GRAPE 01-08-2006 10:43 AM

That does look good, that's single stage? That's an interesting color, it makes me want to put that car in my mouth and suck on it, it looks like a piece of candy :thumbup: I haven't really done a whole lot with single stage yet but I want to. I just hear so much about having to live with the imperfections and stuff, it makes me a bit nervous. I am in the process of prepping a pickup right now of my own and I'm going to spray it with single stage to practice. Is it true that you can't buff a single stage decent? Some say you can if you have hardner in it but I don't spray enough to know. Is there a different technique to spraying single stage or is it similar to BC/CC? Is acryllic thicker as far as filling fine scratches?

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