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Old 12-14-2011, 05:49 PM
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Does MSD make a timing control the actually advances timing?

Hi everyone,
I purchased an MSD 8680 timing control so I could advance my ignition timing on the fly. I then discovered that it does NOT really advance ignition timing. It's actually a retard control.
My question is: does anyone know if someone out there makes a timing control that ADVANCES timing through the use of a control knob?
Thanks!

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Old 12-14-2011, 06:21 PM
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It allows you to adjust the timing. You just have to put in the total amount of advanced that you anticipate you want to run, then you can control it from the drivers seat. Vacuum advances and mechanical flywheight advances are the only way I know to advance timing, mechanically .
You are just seeing the glass half empty thats all.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:28 PM
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The 8680 will increase the timing from the initial timing you set the engine to. The way they instruct you to set it up WILL provide a retard-only function, but you can set it up by dialing it to "0", then set the initial timing. Then the dial will only advance the ignition. Or, put the dial in the middle and set initial to have 7.5 degrees of retard and advance.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:29 PM
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Thanks, but I've spoken to many MSD techs on this. The 8680 can only retard timing, not advance it. However, it can advance the retard amount and this is what they mean when they say it is able to advance. Actually, it cannot.

For example, if you set the knob at 15 degrees, it will provide the base timing once you start the engine. As you turn the knob counter-clockwise, it will retard the timing.

If you set the distributor timing with the 8680's knob set at say, 7.5, once you start the engine, the 8680 will retard the distributor setting by 7.5 degrees. If you turn it down to zero, the distributor timing will be reduced by 15 degrees. If you turn it up to 15, it will take you back to your original distributor timing.

I've spent two years on this issue with MSD and other people. Unfortunately, this is the way the 8680 works. If you need a link, please let me know.

Thanks for responding.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
The 8680 will increase the timing from the initial timing you set the engine to.

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/...g_Control.aspx
Unfortunately, it will NOT do this. The ad is misleading and I've told MSD about it. When it says that the 8680 can adjust timing by 15 degrees, they actually mean that it will ONLY RETARD the timing by as much as 15 degrees, not advance it.

Trust me on this. I've spent more than two years on it.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:37 PM
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From HERE:
Quote:
Resetting the Timing
It is possible to set the Timing Control up to where you can retard and advance the timing 7.5 each. To do this, position the Control Knob in the center (approximately 7.5) then reset the timing to factory specifications.
The knob has to be positioned first, THEN the timing set.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:41 PM
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I guess you HAVE been going around w/this for awhile. http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/look...ol-152715.html
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
From HERE:
The knob has to be positioned first, THEN the timing set.
Unfortunately, this is not correct. Please read my previous post. If you set the knob at 7.5 and then set the distributor timing, once you start the engine, the 8680 will retard the timing by 7.5 degrees. It DOES NOT keep the original distributor timing that you set up. It will automatically retard it by 7.5 degrees.

The only setting on the dial that will provide the distributor timing that you set is 15. This gives you your original distributor timing. You can only go one way on the dial from this setting and that's counter-clockwise, which retards timing.

Once again, trust me on this.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:48 PM
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If it only retards, set the timing 15 degrees advanced from where you want it. Then you can go down from there- and back up.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
If it only retards, set the timing 15 degrees advanced from where you want it. Then you can go down from there- and back up.
I wish that I could do that, but then I won't be able to start the engine. Too much pressure on the starter and flywheel at that advanced setting. The engine would never turn over. Besides, my purpose wasn't to retard the timing. I wanted to advance it.

I first purchased the 8680 so I could advance the timing once I started the engine. My purpose was to set the timing low, so that when I started the engine, there wouldn't be any pressure on the starter or flywheel. Once the engine was running, I wanted to advance the timing to a total of about 40 degrees. I have a blown 454 and blowers love advance.

Unfortunately, the 8680 doesn't work this way.

Thanks for your suggestion. I'd still like to know if there is another timing control out there that will do what I want. Beats me.
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:24 PM
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Once the engine starts to turn over but has not cranked (or even w/just the key "ON"), will the unit allow the timing to be retarded? If it will, then the scheme I outlined (15 degrees advance from where you want it) should still work by retarding it while the engine is cranking but hasn't started.

Otherwise, what about using an ignition interrupter to spin up the engine before arming the ignition. Like guys w/36 degrees locked timing do. Because I don't know of an electronic way to do what you want. I've not looked- but I'm betting you have.
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:43 PM
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How bout setting up a dizzy with a mechanical advance of 20 degrees or close to it, and have the correct weights on it so it comes on full at a few hundred RPM less than what ever speed it runs when you are in front of the christmas tree light (idling at the gate) ,So once it starts it pulls in the 20 degrees, then you can set the base timing at 20 and turn the MSD back 15 degrees untill it starts, then you could crank the engine at as little as 5 degrees and still pull it up to 40 for the drag.Just a thought.
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:53 PM
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I have the 8680 along with the Pro Billet Dist and the 6AL box and it works as advertised. I set my timing with the knob at 7.5 and it will advance and retard. Since I have 14/1 compression I have double and triple checked to make sure what any knob adjustments did.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
I have the 8680 along with the Pro Billet Dist and the 6AL box and it works as advertised. I set my timing with the knob at 7.5 and it will advance and retard. Since I have 14/1 compression I have double and triple checked to make sure what any knob adjustments did.
Thanks everyone for the great input. I'll take a look at your suggestions.

Prostreet, like you, I matched the 8680 with an MSD HEI distributor and 6AL box. And like you, I tried setting the knob to 7.5, thinking that I could both advance and retard by 7.5 degrees. It doesn't work that way. When you advance the knob from 7.5 to say 15, all you're doing is advancing a retard of 7.5 degrees that you get immideately after you start the motor. Turning up to 15 degrees on the knob merely gets you back to the original distributor timing that you set.

So, yes you are advancing the timing when you turn the knob up from 7.5 degrees, but not advancing it over the total, set distributor timing. Again, all you're doing is advancing the retard of 7.5 degrees that the timing control gives you when you start the engine. But you cannot go beyond the total distributor advance that you set up initially. It's unfortunate, but that's the way the unit was designed to work. The 8680 was designed to retard timing to eliminate pinging and to provide better runs for vehicles carrying heavy loads....that kind of thing.

The MSD techs will tell you that the 8680 is actually a RETARD control and they are correct. You cannot TRULY advance the spark from your total, inital timing setting. All you can do is advance the retard.

Anyone wanna' buy it?
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene1000
Thanks everyone for the great input. I'll take a look at your suggestions.

Prostreet, like you, I matched the 8680 with an MSD HEI distributor and 6AL box. And like you, I tried setting the knob to 7.5, thinking that I could both advance and retard by 7.5 degrees. It doesn't work that way. When you advance the knob from 7.5 to say 15, all you're doing is advancing a retard of 7.5 degrees that you get immideately after you start the motor. Turning up to 15 degrees on the knob merely gets you back to the original distributor timing that you set.

So, yes you are advancing the timing when you turn the knob up from 7.5 degrees, but not advancing it over the total, set distributor timing. Again, all you're doing is advancing the retard of 7.5 degrees that the timing control gives you when you start the engine. But you cannot go beyond the total distributor advance that you set up initially. It's unfortunate, but that's the way the unit was designed to work. The 8680 was designed to retard timing to eliminate pinging and to provide better runs for vehicles carrying heavy loads....that kind of thing.

The MSD techs will tell you that the 8680 is actually a RETARD control and they are correct. You cannot TRULY advance the spark from your total, inital timing setting. All you can do is advance the retard.

Anyone wanna' buy it?
Very Interesting.. Maybe my double checking needs a double check.
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