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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2011, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327amc
Some of us are running factory GM billet cams. So we gotta know.

Im waiting to hear back from the manuf to see what material and hardness the MSD streetfire gear is.
May take a while to translate the Chinese.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2011, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSedan64
May take a while to translate the Chinese.
lol
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleVision
I`ve never seen anyone start a new thread and be told to refer to a older one, not on this board now or ever.
It would be a good feature, when a new Thread was started somehow the site would search for keywords in subject area and bring up relavent threads. Like an auto search feature.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 12:02 AM
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Found this in an MSD add:
Another area you cannot scrimp on is a distributor gear. The Street Fire is fit with the same gear used on Pro-Billet models. The metallurgy of this gear has been refined for years to perform through the harshest conditions.

Pro Billet uses an Iron gear.

And GM Roller engines do use Melonized gears.

Last edited by SSedan64; 03-08-2011 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:13 AM
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Nice job.

So which is harder? Billet steel or iron?
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327amc
Nice job.

So which is harder? Billet steel or iron?
Cast Iron is, it will eat the Gear on a Billet Cam.
Bronze, Melonized or Composite Polymer gear should be used on Billet.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:27 AM
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So we have come full circle. MSD is putting iron gears on distributors for billet cams. ?
And their reseller says bronze is a gimmick.

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Old 03-08-2011, 06:06 AM
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You have a couple of alternates for the MSD Billet distributor beyond the cast iron version that they provide as original equipment on their billet dizzys. First, there is the bronze gear. And of course you have a potential wear problem there as they too need to be changed on an occasional basis. Then you have the steel gear (mellonized), which is compatible with the steel roller camshafts. You don't see a lot of information about these, but here is a short article from Engine Builder : http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...utor_gear.aspx

Right or wrong, I use the MSD steel version in my Ford 5.0/ 'E' camshafted engine with the small dia. billet distributor. And it is a PITA to change

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Old 03-08-2011, 06:56 AM
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Camshaft core

The 1986 up factory roller camshafts are Selectively Austempered Ductile Iron (SADI) cast camshaft cores and should use a melonized (hardened) distributor. Comp Cams are supplied with SADI cam cores for their factory roller camshaft grinds. However, Comp Cams pre-1986 retro-fit roller cams may or may not be steel billet, depending on the grind.

The higher lift cams are ground on steel billet cores and require a sacrificial bronze distributor gear. A bronze distributor gear must be inspected or changed every time you set the valves. Mega-lift steel billet camshafts must be ground on smaller cam lobe base circles to achieve high lifts. Grinding small diameter cam lobe base circles on a smaller diameter camshaft will allow the camshaft to fit through the cam bearing bore with adequate internal engine clearances. Steel billet mega-lift camshafts requires that the shaft itself must be reduced in diameter to achieve higher lift on the cam lobes. Old school racers called those "tooth pick" cams because they were so skinny. A high lift "tooth-pick" roller or flat tappet camshaft cannot be made of cast iron because it would probably break when the camshaft twists. Competition tooth-pick style camshafts will twist to a certain extent therefore the camshaft is ground accordingly to compensate for twist or the timing events will be off.

If you have a aftermarket distributor with a .500" diameter main shaft, you should use a MSD 8561 ($57) marine certified (melonized) distributor gear with plain cast iron or SADI camshafts. If you have a brother-in-law deal at a machine shop you can have a GM melonized gear bored out from .491" to .500" and avoid the $65 minimum charge.

Last edited by MouseFink; 03-08-2011 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Z
I have a sbc with a 00404 crower roller cam in it. It's hydraulic, and I just got a new msd distributor. I've always read that you should use a bronze gear witha roller cam, but they need periodic replacement. Can i use the gear that came with the distrib or is that a horrible idea?
Roller cams come in billet steel for the really high priced race stuff, cast steel for moderate race and high performance street, or cast Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI) for steet performance and production.

Steel whether billet or cast is not compatible with steel distributor drive gears. the CGI cast iron can run against a steel gear if the steel has an anti- wear treatment. The recommendation of the the manufacturer tells you this shaft is steel of some sort so to preserve the gear machined on the shaft they recommend you run a softer material against it. Yes such a distributor gear is sacrificial but it's less trouble and less costly to replace than if a steel distributor gear takes out its driving that is a machined feature of the cam shaft.

These days there is also a reinforced carbon fiber plastic gear that can be used. The factory runs a wear treated gear called Melonized against the cast steel and cast CGI shafts.

I'd recommend you use Crower's recommendation or the reinforced plastic gear, they aren't in the business of selling gears, they're trying to protect the cam's distributor driving gear for you; the replacement of which is the cost of a cam and a front end tear down to R&R the thing, instead of pulling the distributor and replacing the driven gear.

Bogie
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:24 PM
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http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...utor_gear.aspx
"3. Melonized or hardened steel (material that OEMs use with factory roller cams; many aftermarket distributor manufacturers use these as the default gears for their distributors)"

How does one determine if an existing gear you already have, is Melonized? (Cant call the manuf cause either you dont know who they are, or you dont speak Chinese very good)
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2011, 10:46 AM
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Ok. I think ive got this whole issue lined out. But I want to contact GM and confirm the info. Its actually quite simple.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327amc
Ok. I think ive got this whole issue lined out. But I want to contact GM and confirm the info. Its actually quite simple.
Didn't appear very simple from the post in this thread.


Cole
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:51 AM
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Thanks for contributing to this discussion Eloc.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327amc
Thanks for contributing to this discussion Eloc.
Anytime I have had my fair share of problems with this same issue and it can get confusing at times. IMHO


Cole
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