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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2008, 09:10 AM
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Mikey,
I am (or was) planning to channel the body over the frame. I saw a rat rod that I liked the looks of that did that. I don't want to do anything dumb (crazy is OK but not dumb). I am inferring from your tone that this is not the way to do it.

I am learning a lot from this site. My skill and knowledge on modifying vehicles is limited. I enrolled in a welding class at the local tech because I learned to weld and use a torch on the farm 25 years ago.

If anyone thinks I'm doing something dumb, incorrect or ugly, I will appreciate your advice. I may not follow it but I will appreciate it.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2008, 09:45 AM
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If you want to channel the body that is fine, you will run out of seating room and be sitting on top of the car instead of in it.

My reference to the lowered cowl was for the folks who like the diesel motors with a big ugly valve cover sticking up over it...

Form follows function...Diesel VS gas
Sorry, I find a blower or carburetor much more pleasing to look at up in the air than a cover meant to contain oil splash and vapor...
Fuel control is a much more appealing function than oil dribble control.

I can see the guys next door to my shop playing with those honda v-tec motors , some of them are going VERY fast, and weigh in at less than 400# , and are nowhere near 32" tall.

Toyota motor is a good way to start, IMO.

If the world of VW is your frame of reference, you and I will never agree. You can have them. German marvels of engineering or not.

Later, mikey
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Last edited by powerrodsmike; 02-12-2008 at 09:50 AM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2008, 06:15 PM
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I think they are a good looking little engine
25-28 mpg Modified to more than 400 hp (crank) , 35x12.50 tires

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur.../photo_08.html

Shane
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike

My reference to the lowered cowl was for the folks who like the diesel motors with a big ugly valve cover sticking up over it...

Form follows function...Diesel VS gas
Sorry, I find a blower or carburetor much more pleasing to look at up in the air than a cover meant to contain oil splash and vapor...
Fuel control is a much more appealing function than oil dribble control.
I don’t know what you are talking about with ‘oil dribble’ and vapor stuff, but that picture of the 4BT in the orange EB proves that they are a very neat and are EXTREMELY mechanical. Honestly, pop the hood of a newer diesel and have a look around. You will be surprised at how nicely the items lay and how it all comes together. A picture of my 2000 Cummins for reference:



And with regards to the Hondas, yeah, they are making power. However, their torque bands are so small its not even funny. You seriously need to be damn near bouncing off the rev limiter to get the things moving. With regards to the VW’s, I will not say at all that they are marvels of german engineering, in fact, I think they are cery poorly designed. However, their gasses having torque curves comparable to diesels is good enough for me. Go drive a torqueless Honda and then get in a VW making the same power. I think you will be pleasantly surprised(NOTE: I am not a VW fanboi as there are many better vehicles out there, but I do appreciate them for their engines.)

-Greg

ps: To the original poster, sorry for hijacking.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:56 AM
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This "diesel vs gas" is obviously a debate of opinions...You won't change my opinion one bit, and so far I don't see any indication that the OP is changing his. Maybe he will.

Using diesel power in hot rods is the dream of a very very small percentage of people who actually build cars..

Later, mikey
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
Using diesel power in hot rods is the dream of a very very small percentage of people who actually build cars..

Later, mikey
However, it falls right in line with the requests of the OP.

And Mikey, not trying to call you out at all. I looked through your gallery and I have to say you do some amazing work.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2008, 01:28 PM
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I'm not going to get into the diesel/gas debate. Period.

I'd think hard about weight....that's where both performance and economy are coming from. The Jeep isn't all that heavy, car-wise. I'm assuming this only going to be 2 wheel drive. No top? That'll help. Maybe get rid of the rear springs and do airbags. More weight off. Coil-overs on front.

Since it's going to be a rod, I'd drill holes in the frame wherever possible, like the old-timers did; and probably use the tubular straight axle from a mail jeep.
You should be able to put together a vehicle like this less than 2500 pounds.

I'd do some research on the Buick turbo V6's. I've had people tell me they got 30 plus miles per gallon on the highways in the Regal body. Cut off about 1500 pounds of weight, and you may be in the ballgame. You can always raise the rearend gear ratio if needed. Most Jeeps have low rearend ratios; I'd think something around 3.0 would be good. Overdrive trans, or course.

There are other V6 or small displacement V8's that could work. Do some homework. There are several of these V8's that are less than 240 cubic inches, overhead cam, and very efficient. I'm of the opinion that something with more power will not have to work at all, and will just putt around with your car, being more efficient than a small motor that has to work to get you around. This has been proven many times in that many V6 bigger cars get poorer mileage and performance than their V8 counterparts.

Just a little different take.....it could work.

Last edited by dalesy; 02-15-2008 at 05:55 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2008, 06:59 PM
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if you can dive into complicated electronics, maybe consider a BMW V12. they were delivering 27 mpg to 4400 pound cars, and the aluminum motor really does not weigh much, and is not too big. a lot of these cars avail for cheap, because the electronics are devilishly complicated and when out of warranty they are too expensive to maintain. you can get an 88-92 BMW 750 for $1500 ish, and get a bunch back selling salvage, keep the motor. don't let the high mileage scare you, as these were built for it.

stock motor delivered 350 ft/lb torque over a very broad wide curve, and in a light weight car could get into mid 30s for mpg?

** edited to add: ** MegaSquirt can handle 12 cyls, and could be a great substitute for the stock ECM. it's just a tough learning curve, but for me was worth the effort.

i'd love to put a diesel motor in hot rod build someday. the new GM turbo diesel that is not released yet... with the exhaust & turbo in the valley... should fit in a midsize car, but it'll be awhile before they are available after they have been seasoned

Last edited by TheMonkey; 02-15-2008 at 07:12 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2008, 08:22 PM
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Rat Rod

what about a short box s-10 with a 4 banger and 5 speed, l think its a great little 4 banger and l think if l remember right that the frame at the cab is 42 inches, l've had afew with the 4 and some with the 6 but l like the 4 it seems to have more go to it, BUT ITS JUST MY VIEW POINT TROY
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2008, 09:19 PM
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In a light car one can get some very good mileage with an engine that is good sized..I would not let it get me down completely if I only got say 35 or something..One can look up some of the techniques used in the old Mobil economy run and use some of those ideas as well..

Sam
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2008, 09:30 PM
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I picked up a donor chasis

I picked up a 1982 Nissan Datsun 720 pickup to use as a donor chassis. I like the frame because it sits low where the cab will go. Also the front end can clean up nicely with a few simple mods.

I'm not tied into the drive train. The motor is fine but has a lot of miles and the tranny needs some minor work.

I'm not afraid of diesels. I had a Chevy Luv with a diesel engine. When I sold it everything on the truck was shot except the motor was strong. The new owner bought the truck for the motor. It got 40 - 45 MPG. I don't know much about the 4bt but I'm looking into it.

If I got a V-4 or V-6 I could run headers on both sides and I'd like the looks of that. I've been impressed by turbos but I have never owned one.

BTW my Willys Jeep is a 1948, 49 and 52 pickup, or I should say parts of several. It will have a top but I might chop it because it looks good and I want to learn how to do it. I'm planning to leave the fenders off and shorten the box. I waffle a bit on this but right now I'm leaning towards using the hood and grill. (see the Toyota earlier in this post). Anyway, I will shave a bit of weight off the body. I'll research losing more.

I have a lot of time to research drive trains and increasing MPGs.

Thanks for all of your posts.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2008, 11:38 PM
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I think if you look at a Ranger or S-10 w/ a 4 banger/ 5 spd. that it will be close to what you want. You can channel the cab over the frame and shorten the box to fit. The S-10 has nice independent suspension and so do some of the Rangers, but have twin I-beam.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juke
I picked up a 1982 Nissan Datsun 720 pickup to use as a donor chassis. I like the frame because it sits low where the cab will go. Also the front end can clean up nicely with a few simple mods.

I'm not tied into the drive train. The motor is fine but has a lot of miles and the tranny needs some minor work.

I'm not afraid of diesels. I had a Chevy Luv with a diesel engine. When I sold it everything on the truck was shot except the motor was strong. The new owner bought the truck for the motor. It got 40 - 45 MPG. I don't know much about the 4bt but I'm looking into it.

If I got a V-4 or V-6 I could run headers on both sides and I'd like the looks of that. I've been impressed by turbos but I have never owned one.

BTW my Willys Jeep is a 1948, 49 and 52 pickup, or I should say parts of several. It will have a top but I might chop it because it looks good and I want to learn how to do it. I'm planning to leave the fenders off and shorten the box. I waffle a bit on this but right now I'm leaning towards using the hood and grill. (see the Toyota earlier in this post). Anyway, I will shave a bit of weight off the body. I'll research losing more.

I have a lot of time to research drive trains and increasing MPGs.

Thanks for all of your posts.

hows your progress ? lets see some pictures
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 04:14 PM
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http://www.nippon-motors.com/nissan.htm

1500.00 you can get a complete engine and trans. 2.0 liter turbo with efi (SR20DET). Makes 210hp stock and can easily make 400 with more boost. they get 35 mpg highway when swapped into 2700 pound Z cars. May get 40 in a low and light weight rod.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2009, 11:48 AM
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Diesel powered Rod!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVlov_t4fjg
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